The Dolls vs The Stooges.

I have just had an Epiphany!

Having spent the last couple of hours listening to the last two albums from the New York Dolls I came away feeling that maybe, just maybe they are more relevant than the Stooges and certainly more entertaining. They sound fresh, fun and the songs are very strong. I hope that the songs Iggy recorded with the Stooges on the skull ring album is not an example of what we can look forward to with any new material that is coming our way.

Having said all of that...I guess anything that stops him making an album like his last one can only be a forward step. I would rather hear a Jack Russell fart...in French!

PS Anyone see the episode of Gilmore girls where they mention Iggy?
Love that show...its the tits, its gangsta.

The new york dolls were always over hyped.

HELLO!!!

If only the stooges had their own Bob Gruen..........

Hey JW played a LP special type guitar in Brazil!Like J.Thunders.
P90 double stops forever.

Who is Bob Gruen? What does this have to do with this boneheads post?

Bob Gruen is the guy who shoot tons of Dolls footage back in the 70's,hours and hours of vintage Dolls with audio!Now think about 40 hours of stooges footage...

tori amos ROCKS wrote:

I have just had an Epiphany!

Having spent the last couple of hours listening to the last two albums from the New York Dolls I came away feeling that maybe, just maybe they are more relevant than the Stooges and certainly more entertaining. They sound fresh, fun and the songs are very strong. I hope that the songs Iggy recorded with the Stooges on the skull ring album is not an example of what we can look forward to with any new material that is coming our way.

Having said all of that...I guess anything that stops him making an album like his last one can only be a forward step. I would rather hear a Jack Russell fart...in French!

PS Anyone see the episode of Gilmore girls where they mention Iggy?
Love that show...its the tits, its gangsta.

Having recently listened to NYD 1st for the first time since it came out, I was struck by how quaintly old-fashioned it was. Pretty retro stuff even then. They can't be any less relevant now, I guess. But how old rockers re-visiting past glories can be relevant to anyone who isn't in their age bracket is anyone's guess. I'm glad in retrospect that the VU didn't record any new material when they reformed to top-up their pensions.

The dolls suck

Whos the godfather of punk?

mr.datsun wrote:

I'm glad in retrospect that the VU didn't record any new material when they reformed to top-up their pensions.

I don't know, given strong enough material. For example wouldn't Songs for Drella for be even better with Moe and Sterling on it?

boogie wrote:

If only the stooges had their own Bob Gruen..........

They did. His name is Mick Rock.

Anyways, they played two totally different types of music. One more relevant than the other? I dunno about that. If you like blues-based R&B/Rock & Roll, then the Dolls are your game. If you like aggressive, in your face Detroit attitude, then The Stooges are you what you love. The only thing they had in common was the era in which they played (The Stooges decline and death/The Dolls on the rise). The New York Dolls will never go out of style. That first LP plays as fresh now as it did 30 years ago. How the fuck does drug-fueled white boys playing amped-up R&B go stale?! Same idea with the Stooges. Timeless music lasts forever.

Rathbone has it 100% correct and 100% wrong. Tori Amos Rocks is indeed a bonehead. However, The Dolls could NEVER be classified as over-hyped. All you need to do is look at all the bands that followed in their wake, and you can see that they had just as much of an influence on future generations as the Stooges. How many Johnny Thunders imitators came after them? Their appearance on OGWT was a monumental moment in R&R history.

As for the VU reunion, the only reason John Cale didn't split from that was because Mo and Sterl really needed it. Lou was an evil overlord (nothing new about that, though) on that tour. On one of the videos documenting those concerts (I forget which one), you can see Lou yelling at Cale mid-song. YELLING.

I don't understand how you can love the Stooges and hate the Dolls. Just as there is a Holy Trinity of British R&R (Beatles/Stones/Who), the influence of another trinity (VU/Stooges/Dolls) is just as influential.

And as for Dog Soldier's question, the Godfather of Punk is Lou Reed.

I love the New York Dolls and the Stooges.
i admit that iggys last album was pants
gilmore girls??????

WHO IS TORI AMOS ANYWAY?

LOU REED GODFATHER OF PUNK

Always preferred The Heartbreakers (and So Alone) to the Dolls.
Hey Tori Amos Rocks, there's a recent Stooges song you might enjoy. It's called Trollin'. Ring a bell?

Don't worry guys,we'll never run out of godfathers of punk.

boogie wrote:

Don't worry guys,we'll never run out of godfathers of punk.

That's for damn sure. Jerry Lee Lewis has something to say about that!

What ths f**k does Jerry Lee Lewis have to do with it?

Man...I only came on here to make friends!

tori amos ROCKS wrote:

Man...I only came on here to make friends!

try harder

rathbone wrote:

What ths f**k does Jerry Lee Lewis have to do with it?

One of the founders of Rock & Roll and a surefire Punk! Attitude, balls, and wicked skills.

I am not a big fan of the whole nostalgia punk scene myself. There is plenty of good new punk out there. Some people are always living in the past. I have no wish to go and see a band just play stuff they recorded 40 years ago.

reeder wrote:

I am not a big fan of the whole nostalgia punk scene myself. There is plenty of good new punk out there. Some people are always living in the past. I have no wish to go and see a band just play stuff they recorded 40 years ago.

Well, I was born in '73, so if any of the bands I missed are making a second go at it, I wanna see 'em. So far, I've been happy with my decision.

heavy liquid wrote:

franny wrote:

WHO IS TORI AMOS ANYWAY?

You don't wanna fucking know. TRUST me.

sure, you don't wanna know...

I hear these apples and oranges comparisons in horse-racing; i.e. Secretariat vs. Man O' War vs. Affirmed. So other than personal preferences, you have to look at the results. Affirmed broke records, Secretariat shattered them to smithereens. But they all validate the idea of especially talented horses, and progress in their sport throughout the ages.

The Stooges were the first to combine true "performance art" stagecraft with exciting, primal rock 'n' roll and fun, sexy vulgarity in an era that eschewed all but tmore and more complex prog or dainty singer/songwriterism, later ratcheting it up even further with the addition of the virtuosity of James Williamson, of whom Iggy noted "came from no known musical vocabulary." Suddenly there were classics worthy of comparison to "Street Fighting Man" and "Jumping Jack Flash." It should have worked...

This remains pretty heady stuff, then or now. I saw its first incarnation, but lucky you guys to see its current celebration. Be glad that the mature band is no longer into self-destruction for your entertainment pleasure: you guys are seeing the best incarnations, the late Ron or James, for pure Stooge musicality.

Sure, I would love to know of any current band similar in innovation and power (usually it's one or the other.) I always like hearing something terrific I haven't heard before, part of the same mentality that made me love the Stooges music back in the day when most people not born in Michigan really didn't. The only exciting band in the last half decade I've heard both live and on cd that really had their own ideas while really rocking noisily was Awesome Color, and they just broke up this week! So who's out there that A) does something that no other band in the world is doing and B) really, really rocks?

Perdu wrote:

The Stooges were the first to combine true "performance art" stagecraft with exciting, primal rock 'n' roll and fun, sexy vulgarity in an era that eschewed all but tmore and more complex prog or dainty singer/songwriterism...

Sure, I would love to know of any current band similar in innovation and power (usually it's one or the other.) I always like hearing something terrific I haven't heard before, part of the same mentality that made me love the Stooges music back in the day when most people not born in Michigan really didn't. The only exciting band in the last half decade I've heard both live and on cd that really had their own ideas while really rocking noisily was Awesome Color, and they just broke up this week! So who's out there that A) does something that no other band in the world is doing and B) really, really rocks?

Well, I must say the Velvet Underground was doing the performance art stagecraft first (Andy's Exploding Plastic Inevitable...don't forget Gerard Malanga's Whip Dance!).

Anyways, I 100% agree with your apples/oranges comment, and as for new "innovative" bands, the Stooges innovated so everyone who followed could just mimic. Rock music has forever plateaued...the rise of innovation and evolution died by the early 80s methinks. Or am I just a pessimist?