stooges 2009 prospects?

james matlock wrote:

They still havent done a major north american tour, just a couple of unrelated festival dates. It would be nice to see them bring the music back to the mother-land before they sign off. Perhaps a co-headlining tour next summer with Sex Pistols>?

I hate John Lydon so I certainly hope not! Just one more tour with a few more unplayed songs and i'll be happy.

>I hate John Lydon
O'rly? Uncle Johnny hates you back then!

Fingers crossed that they play a few small shows in Japan next year...
I'd be happy with that.

Sex Pistols are the worst punkband of all times. Fake music

Lucas wrote:

Sex Pistols are the worst punkband of all times. Fake music

Quote :

Sex Pistols are the worst punkband of all times. Fake music

...clash anyone?

at least sex pistols were openly fake, clash just jumped on the bandwagon cause strummer couldnt make it as anythin else

Lucas wrote:

Sex Pistols are the worst punkband of all times. Fake music

Fake music, huh? What a load of bollocks! Iggy would say the same, I assure you... You don't know what you're talking about. Do you have any idea how much that "fake music" changed rock n roll?

comaman wrote:

Lucas wrote:

Sex Pistols are the worst punkband of all times. Fake music

Fake music, huh? What a load of bollocks! Iggy would say the same, I assure you... You don't know what you're talking about. Do you have any idea how much that "fake music" changed rock n roll?

You're gonna hate my fucking guts too, but I have to agree.

The Sex Pistols were an attitude, not a band. They couldn't play for shit.

But their attitude got the job done, especially in an era where music really fucking sucked in general. More power to 'em.

what the hell d'you all mean by the Sex Pistols being 'fake'? in the sense that they were manufactured by McLaren?
I don't like Lydon either and the ever-pontificating McLaren even less. But hell, I LOVE Steve Jones's guitar on the early stuff! and SOME of the lyrics were great too...don't like 'Anarchy in the UK' but 'God Save the Queen' is brill..And the lesser-known stuff like 'Bodies' and the cover of 'Dont Gimme no Lip' is best of all.
anyway, yeh...love Jones's guitar...that absolutely burning scorching sound, on the early stuff anyway...and when I fall in love with the sound of anyone's guitar there's absolutely NO reasoning with me.

and I CERTAINLY don't agree that The Clash are fake either... won't stand for it!!
Sure they ended up making lots of boring music, but they had some GREAT songs early on, which sound pretty heartfelt to me too. That's more than I can say of practically any band these days.

The sex pistols were a marketing concept. Making the charts with punk music. There were so much better bands who were sincere, Crass, Poison Girls, UK Subs, Buzzcocks, Joy Division, Exploited. Didn't make the charts, because they didn't try to make music just for the sake of selling it to large crowds

Lucas wrote:

The sex pistols were a marketing concept. Making the charts with punk music. There were so much better bands who were sincere, Crass, Poison Girls, UK Subs, Buzzcocks, Joy Division, Exploited. Didn't make the charts, because they didn't try to make music just for the sake of selling it to large crowds

Quite a few of these bands would have never existed if it wasn't for the Pistols. The rest would never have made it beyond the pub band circuit.

mc wrote:

Lucas wrote:

The sex pistols were a marketing concept. Making the charts with punk music. There were so much better bands who were sincere, Crass, Poison Girls, UK Subs, Buzzcocks, Joy Division, Exploited. Didn't make the charts, because they didn't try to make music just for the sake of selling it to large crowds

Quite a few of these bands would have never existed if it wasn't for the Pistols. The rest would never have made it beyond the pub band circuit.

Amen, mc. Very well put.

And to say that they were marketed for the charts? Jeez, do you know anything about what was happening back in 76/77? The Pistols were banned from the charts, banned by the BBC and mostly banned from performing in the UK.

Back then music was becoming boring and stale...
The Pistols turned everything around for us who were young and bored with what the music scene had become. The Pistols were "ours". They made rock n roll exciting again. If some people don't happen to like them, that is OK by me, everybody have different tastes in music. But they should at least give them some respect for all things they changed and inspired.

Saying things like they made fake music and that they were marketed for the charts, that's simply not knowing the facts...

Quote :

The Pistols turned everything around for us who were young and bored with what the music scene had become. They were "ours". They made rock n roll exciting again. If some people don't happen to like them, that is OK by me, everybody have different tastes in music. But they should at least give them some respect for all things they changed and inspired.

you're describing their ethos, their attitude like loose said and its effect on people and i dont think anyones disputing that, and what they did for ppl, esp just young kids who were boared with all the progrocky 70min solos and all that shit

on the other hand, mclaren did have ALOT to do with them and esp the way they were marketed, you could compare the pistols in the late 70s and their campaign to the stones campaign in the mid 60s "the beatles want to hold your hand, the stones want to burn down your house" i think the line was, and with time we can see that the first era of stones, while it was great music (same as pistols) was all marketing - all that banned stuff just played up to the image

the more i read and hear about the pistols - note; ''about the pistols" not their music, i like the music, lyrics etc, there nothin wrong with that, idunno how long it will last, itll always have a place, but i dont think it will last as long as stooges for example, anyway, the more i hear/read about the pistols i think it is more of a 'well, you had to be there" kinda thing, it seems that that was what they were doing was just a part of the times, and it became a fad in the end, but what im tryin to say is in 'retrospect' or something, where the music has to stand up for itself, i dont think it does, its still great and everything, and i dont think its fake or anything, but i dont think its selfsufficient, it needs the ''well it was what they were doing at the time" argument to stand beside it u'no, but the music doesnt matter, they were an attitude band like loose said

- and i still hold up the thing about clash, strummer saw something that looked cool and mightve become a big thing, jumped aboard and went with it, took what he needed and left and did the more mainstream thing, and if you dont believe me read babylons burning

>on the other hand, mclaren did have ALOT to do with them etc.
Sure, they happened to have a manager who could manipulate the press and it worked for them. How good for them! As it turned out in the end, he was stealing a lot of royalties and telling lies about them which creating the schism that helped breaking up the band. Of course Sid's heroin adiction was a big part of it too...

>where the music has to stand up for itself, i dont think it does
I think their Bollocks album is among the 10 best of all albums ever. Many people do. Can't see your point why it shouldn't 'stand up' as you say as well as for instance The Stooges. Do you mean that the music isn't as well constructed as The Stooges songs? Or do you mean that the songs are less important lyric wise? Is it better to sing about wanting to be your dog than to call the queen of England a moron for instance? Is that something that will last longer? Maybe, I'm not saying that there is a wrong or a right between them, as I love both, but I just don't see your point.... I could just aswell very easily construct reasons for claiming that it could be the other way around and that the Stooges stuff doesn't stand up as well as The Pistols...

The thing is, it's music, and music is entertainment first and most. If that music can also mean something, if it can be powerful enough to inspire others to be creative in any way, then that's something special which not many artists achives.

Both the Stooges and the Pistols has that quality. And they both created some exciting high energy music which touched countless of peoples hearts. And I love them both forever for it...!

There seems to be a huge misunderstanding. The pistols were not the ones that inspired musicians in the UK to 'create' punk, the stooges were.

I do know some things that were happening in that time, I was a teenager back then. Not living in the UK, but nonetheless not completely ignorant of the world around me

comaman wrote:

>on the other hand, mclaren did have ALOT to do with them etc.
Sure, they happened to have a manager who could manipulate the press and it worked for them. How good for them! As it turned out in the end, he was stealing a lot of royalties and telling lies about them which creating the schism that helped breaking up the band. Of course Sid's heroin adiction was a big part of it too...

>where the music has to stand up for itself, i dont think it does
I think their Bollocks album is among the 10 best of all albums ever. Many people do. Can't see your point why it shouldn't 'stand up' as you say as well as for instance The Stooges. Do you mean that the music isn't as well constructed as The Stooges songs? Or do you mean that the songs are less important lyric wise? Is it better to sing about wanting to be your dog than to call the queen of England a moron for instance? Is that something that will last longer? Maybe, I'm not saying that there is a wrong or a right between them, as I love both, but I just don't see your point.... I could just aswell very easily construct reasons for claiming that it could be the other way around and that the Stooges stuff doesn't stand up as well as The Pistols...

The thing is, it's music, and music is entertainment first and most. If that music can also mean something, if it can be powerful enough to inspire others to be creative in any way, then that's something special which not many artists achives.

Both the Stooges and the Pistols has that quality. And they both created some exciting high energy music which touched countless of peoples hearts. And I love them both forever for it...!

right on all counts comaman! great post!!

Lucas wrote:

There seems to be a huge misunderstanding. The pistols were not the ones that inspired musicians in the UK to 'create' punk, the stooges were

can't speak for anyone else but personally, I'm not talking about 'the creation of punk'. It's an old old line that's just been done to death. I'm just talking about music...music that continues to mean something....as comaman said, exciting high-energy music that continues to inspire regardless of the way it was marketed, regardless of the personalities involved, etc, etc, etc.

But music that continue to mean something doesn't neccesarily equal music that is or remains populair. If that were the case the shit that comes out of Bono should be considered the best music ever.

Just listening: "The leaders of rock don't rock", what a coincidence

When talking about music that means something in combination with Sex pistols, I would opt for Lydon and the work he has done with Public Image, way better then the Pistols stuff

Lucas wrote:

But music that continue to mean something doesn't neccesarily equal music that is or remains populair.

I think that's something ALL of us on this board know, Lucas

The Pistols' music means something to me, and, just to be contrary once again, Public Image's music doesn't
anyway, debates can go on forever...but people will always just like what they like!

I can see some simularities between Bono and the Sex Pistols though.

Pistols also were fairly populair and sold well from scratch on. For me, punk and populairity, especially in the first years are almost a contadictio in terminis. But then again, in the end it's all about taste wether or not music means something to you. But I don't see the Pistols influenced music as much as many people think

I just edited my previous post to omit all reference to Bono..

yeh in the end it's all about opinions!
I don't want to argue about the Pistols' influence either . I wish it were possible to mention the Pistols without having to discuss their influence as well. No-one ever talks about just their guitar sound!!!!

[quote="Lucas"]There seems to be a huge misunderstanding. The pistols were not the ones that inspired musicians in the UK to 'create' punk, the stooges were.

WRONG! The Pistols and a handfull of others in England knew about the Stooges and had heard them back then. By saying "then" I mean around 1975-1976. The Stooges were considered nothing more but a novelty act in Europe at the time and didn't get much attention in Europe at all back then. The Pistols and a few others were inspired by the Stooges. And the Velvets. And the Dolls. And Alice Cooper etc... Not only the Stooges, which is worth considering too...

BUT, it was The Pistols who influenced thousands of kids around Europe in 1976-1977 and onwards, not the Stooges. This is where a lot of younger people go wrong, because they have only read about what happened in 'retrospective' articles. Articles who rightfully say Iggy/Stooges influenced the Pistols and a few others to pick up their instruments and start bands. But as I said the Stooges didn't have the power or opportunity to break through on a big scale and influence many people since they were almost unheard of at the time. Only very few people in Europe knew about them...

The 2 first Stooges LPs were long out of print in 1977 and almost impossible to find at the time. Raw Power had also become deleted from the racks in record stores years ago back then. Sadly Raw Power was a total flop in Europe when it was first released in 1973, and that album was also out of print in 1977. A couple of articles in the summer of 1977 such as Nick Kent's retro piece on Iggy where he gave him credit for being "The Godfather Of Punk" put some attention to his previous work with Stooges. Capitalizing on these articles and the current wave of Punk and the Pistols in particular, CBS wisely rereleased Raw Power in the winter of 1977 and had big adverts printed in the press to promote it. That's when a lot of kids hooked on punk and new wave first got into it. But, and this is important, it was AFTER the Pistols had already created this new movement called 'Punk'. Raw Power was then being sought out by the kids who already loved The Pistols, The Clash etc.

Therefore you're statement that it was the Stooges and not the Pistols who influenced thousands of kids/musicians is totally wrong and blown out of proportion. And this is the truth, ask anybody who were in their teens in Europe around that time....

U2 called themselves a Punk band when they started out, as did the Police - talk about bandwagon jumping.

mc wrote:

U2 called themselves a Punk band when they started out, as did the Police - talk about bandwagon jumping.

That didn't fit The Police, ever. But us old U2 fans know that they DID start off in that direction. I've got the demos to prove it.

*ducks the flying rotten tomatoes*

Loose1969 wrote:

mc wrote:

U2 called themselves a Punk band when they started out, as did the Police - talk about bandwagon jumping.

That didn't fit The Police, ever. But us old U2 fans know that they DID start off in that direction. I've got the demos to prove it.

*ducks the flying rotten tomatoes*

Have to give you that one, just found this on youtube - U2 sounded half decent for about 15 minutes: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6lLDezZ8iYI