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 Columbia petition?

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Donald
Rob Gallucci
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Rob Gallucci

Rob Gallucci


Number of posts : 230
Registration date : 2009-03-03

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PostSubject: Columbia petition?   Columbia petition? Icon_minitimeTue Mar 10, 2009 3:19 pm

There's a lot of talk about Columbia or EA reissuing Raw Power (or RP era material.) That's very welcome, but I want to take up a point I made in a separate thread and address what is, for me, the most frustrating issue of any Stooges releases - the RP album itself. The Bowie, Iggy and Rough Power mixes all have aspects which are both great and also far less than great. The songs themselves are brilliant - we all know that. BUT... it's been a long standing dream of mine to hear a version that does full justice to that brilliance. Namely, one where Ron and Scott's playing is brought forward in the mix so we can hear a whole BAND playing throughout the songs. I had hoped Iggy's mix might deliver that, but I don't believe it does. We know Columbia seeks fans input on reissues. I'm sure we could contact them somehow. Would anyone be interested in trying to petition Columbia (maybe through this site?) to hand the master tapes over to Rhino or someone else for a (hopefully) definitive remaster? When you look at all the Rhino remasters for example, the original label always keeps ownership, so it's not as if Columbia would lose their ownership of an undisputably CLASSIC album. I suppose the first question to be answered is: if, as rumoured, only 3 of the 24 available tracks were used (1 for vocals, 1 for lead guitar and 1 for "the band,") then is it actually possible to create any mix better than we already have. I would LOVE to believe it is. The first album and Fun House were both remastered to perfect effect on the last reissues. Can we get the same done for RP? Every fan has a favourite mix, but in my experience, I've never yet met a fan who has one they are totally satisfied with. Your thoughts?
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Donald




Number of posts : 1003
Location : Chelmsford, UK
Registration date : 2007-11-22

Columbia petition? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Columbia petition?   Columbia petition? Icon_minitimeTue Mar 10, 2009 4:34 pm

There are some thoughts on this thread
https://stoogesforum.forumotion.com/jesus-loves-the-stooges-f1/raw-power-box-set-t1297.htm

and a link on the second page where you can let CBS know yourself. If you do start a petition on the CBS site let us know so we can use our remaining votes up Very Happy
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Loose1969
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Loose1969


Number of posts : 1565
Age : 66
Location : Callin' from the Fun House....
Registration date : 2007-07-18

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PostSubject: Re: Columbia petition?   Columbia petition? Icon_minitimeTue Mar 10, 2009 4:36 pm

That's a great idea that I'd be on board with, but it's my feeling that the masters themselves aren't that great to begin with. Otherwise it's likely that a properly mixed version would have hit the streets by now.
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Rob Gallucci

Rob Gallucci


Number of posts : 230
Registration date : 2009-03-03

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PostSubject: Re: Columbia petition?   Columbia petition? Icon_minitimeTue Mar 10, 2009 4:41 pm

Cheers Donald, I had read that thread and added my thoughts to it. The reason I started this new topic is that I thought the current Columbia possible reissue was likely to be more of a repackaging job than a new remastering. I will try to find out more from Columbia, and post anything of interest I find out.
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Donald




Number of posts : 1003
Location : Chelmsford, UK
Registration date : 2007-11-22

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PostSubject: Re: Columbia petition?   Columbia petition? Icon_minitimeTue Mar 10, 2009 5:16 pm

Sorry Rob, I didn't spot your post. Still, maybe a different petition would be in order. Lets face it, a lot of us would buy any old shit CBS put out Laughing
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Rob Gallucci

Rob Gallucci


Number of posts : 230
Registration date : 2009-03-03

Columbia petition? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Columbia petition?   Columbia petition? Icon_minitimeFri Mar 27, 2009 1:12 pm

No reply yet to the mail I sent on 10th March. If anyone is interested in sending their own mail on the subject of a RP remaster, the address is: talktous@legacyrecordings.com
I have discussed this with Heavy Liquid - please do not mention this forum if you mail Columbia (there is a good reason for this!)

For information, I paste the content of my mail below (largely taken fron my post that started this thread):
"There's a lot of talk about Columbia reissuing Raw Power (or RP era material.) That's very welcome, but I want to take up a point which is, for many fans, very frustrating. The Bowie and Iggy mixes all have aspects which are both great and also far less than great. The songs themselves are brilliant - we all know that. BUT... it's been a long standing dream of many fans to hear a version that does full justice to that brilliance. Namely, one where the bass and drums are brought forward in the mix so we can hear a whole BAND playing throughout the songs. We know Columbia seeks fans input on reissues, so would you consider handing the master tapes over to Rhino or someone else for a definitive remix/remaster? When you look at all the Rhino remasters for example, the original label always keeps ownership, so it's not as if Columbia would lose their ownership of an undisputably CLASSIC album. Every fan has a favourite mix, but in my experience, I've never yet met a fan who has one they are totally satisfied with.
You have a truly, truly CLASSIC album in Raw Power. It's many fans would like to know if it can be taken to an even greater level than ever before. I am sure Columbia are well aware of the debates that have raged (and continue to do so) amongst Stooges and other Rock fans for decades over the influence of the production and mixing on the finished album.

Many thanks, in advance, for your time and attention in this matter.
On behalf of Raw Power fans, old and new, all over the world.
"
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Loose1969
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Loose1969


Number of posts : 1565
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PostSubject: Re: Columbia petition?   Columbia petition? Icon_minitimeFri Mar 27, 2009 4:41 pm

Nicely done, Rob!
That would be something else, hearing it properly for the first time. I honestly hope I'm incorrect about the master tapes.
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Stranger09




Number of posts : 490
Registration date : 2009-02-19

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PostSubject: Re: Columbia petition?   Columbia petition? Icon_minitimeFri Mar 27, 2009 7:51 pm

direct action?

I don't disagree with petitions - indeed I have a couple of Bowie related ones in my sig on a Bowie forum I used - however they take a long time to gather pace, particularly to the sort of numbers that would make a record company sit up and take note sadly Sad

However given our discussions elsewhere about what software can do these days - and I've watched what an experienced mixer can do with what's available, given I think there are people here who may have such experience, my personal feeling is in this day and age, mix it yourself, and send it to the record company - show them what can be done!
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Rob Gallucci

Rob Gallucci


Number of posts : 230
Registration date : 2009-03-03

Columbia petition? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Columbia petition?   Columbia petition? Icon_minitimeFri Mar 27, 2009 10:27 pm

I am no mixing technology expert Stranger09, but if anyone on this forum has the skills then I am sure we would all be right behind it for our own listening pleasure and maybe sending to Columbia as a "beat that" challenge.

The reason I was thinking about an "official" remaster was to avoid another Rough Power, which is a little kinder to Ron's bass on some songs, but still leaves Scott's drums sounding like they are in the room next door. And even though Ron comes off a little better, the overall sound is still kind of murky.
If a RP remaster could give anything like the kind of balance you hear on the Olympic studios stuff (disc 1 of Heavy Liquid) with bass and drums sounding loud and clear without detracting from James' guitar sound, then I think that would be fantastic. It may never happen now, but we can still dream about it!

Any takers here for the remix challenge?
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Loose1969
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Loose1969


Number of posts : 1565
Age : 66
Location : Callin' from the Fun House....
Registration date : 2007-07-18

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PostSubject: Re: Columbia petition?   Columbia petition? Icon_minitimeFri Mar 27, 2009 10:32 pm

I'll give it a shot...but then again, I don't have the equipment Columbia would have access to. But it's a fun idea nonetheless. I'm in.
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Rob Gallucci

Rob Gallucci


Number of posts : 230
Registration date : 2009-03-03

Columbia petition? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Columbia petition?   Columbia petition? Icon_minitimeFri Mar 27, 2009 10:51 pm

Loose1969 wrote:
I'll give it a shot...but then again, I don't have the equipment Columbia would have access to. But it's a fun idea nonetheless. I'm in.

Go for it!
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Loose1969
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Loose1969


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PostSubject: Re: Columbia petition?   Columbia petition? Icon_minitimeFri Mar 27, 2009 11:31 pm

I thought I'd take "Penetration" and see if I can actually bring out some drums on that.
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nick




Number of posts : 30
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PostSubject: Re: Columbia petition?   Columbia petition? Icon_minitimeSat Mar 28, 2009 7:24 am

Loose1969 wrote:
I thought I'd take "Penetration" and see if I can actually bring out some drums on that.

you should try and bring out some of the celeste a bit more too.
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Loose1969
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Loose1969


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Registration date : 2007-07-18

Columbia petition? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Columbia petition?   Columbia petition? Icon_minitimeSat Mar 28, 2009 6:48 pm

nick wrote:
Loose1969 wrote:
I thought I'd take "Penetration" and see if I can actually bring out some drums on that.

you should try and bring out some of the celeste a bit more too.

That actually comes out pretty good on the Iggy remix. I'll be working with that one first.
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Stranger09




Number of posts : 490
Registration date : 2009-02-19

Columbia petition? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Columbia petition?   Columbia petition? Icon_minitimeSun Mar 29, 2009 3:43 pm

Loose1969 wrote:
nick wrote:
Loose1969 wrote:
I thought I'd take "Penetration" and see if I can actually bring out some drums on that.

you should try and bring out some of the celeste a bit more too.

That actually comes out pretty good on the Iggy remix. I'll be working with that one first.

Excellent Smile

As I think you know, if you are using Cool Edit or something similar, it is possible to crib from various sources.

While I'm sure you have the Raw Power LP and CD's, and Rough Power CD, do you have the true stereo FM broadcast of the pre-Bowie mixes?

I have that, it's true stereo unlike the 'bathroom sound' used at the end of the Rough Power CD.
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Rob Gallucci

Rob Gallucci


Number of posts : 230
Registration date : 2009-03-03

Columbia petition? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Columbia petition?   Columbia petition? Icon_minitimeTue Mar 31, 2009 2:01 am

Best of luck in your work on this Loose1969. I for one will be excited to hear whatever you may create.
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Loose1969
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Loose1969


Number of posts : 1565
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PostSubject: Re: Columbia petition?   Columbia petition? Icon_minitimeTue Mar 31, 2009 4:37 am

Stranger09 wrote:
Loose1969 wrote:
nick wrote:
Loose1969 wrote:
I thought I'd take "Penetration" and see if I can actually bring out some drums on that.

you should try and bring out some of the celeste a bit more too.

That actually comes out pretty good on the Iggy remix. I'll be working with that one first.

Excellent Smile

As I think you know, if you are using Cool Edit or something similar, it is possible to crib from various sources.

While I'm sure you have the Raw Power LP and CD's, and Rough Power CD, do you have the true stereo FM broadcast of the pre-Bowie mixes?

I have that, it's true stereo unlike the 'bathroom sound' used at the end of the Rough Power CD.

I just have the three CD versions. Still formulating how I'm gonna do this with possibly more than one source. I have a few different editing programs, Acid Pro 4.0 does a lot of cool stuff.

I'll keep everyone posted. This may take a while. Laughing
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Loose1969
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Loose1969


Number of posts : 1565
Age : 66
Location : Callin' from the Fun House....
Registration date : 2007-07-18

Columbia petition? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Columbia petition?   Columbia petition? Icon_minitimeTue Mar 31, 2009 4:37 am

Rob Gallucci wrote:
Best of luck in your work on this Loose1969. I for one will be excited to hear whatever you may create.

Thanks, Rob. Smile I hope I don't disappoint.
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Rob Gallucci

Rob Gallucci


Number of posts : 230
Registration date : 2009-03-03

Columbia petition? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Columbia petition?   Columbia petition? Icon_minitimeWed Apr 01, 2009 1:32 am

Loose1969 wrote:
Rob Gallucci wrote:
Best of luck in your work on this Loose1969. I for one will be excited to hear whatever you may create.

Thanks, Rob. Smile I hope I don't disappoint.

Hey, even if it doesn't work out (but I'm sure you'll produce something interesting from it,) you're doing more than Columbia currently are!
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Stranger09




Number of posts : 490
Registration date : 2009-02-19

Columbia petition? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Columbia petition?   Columbia petition? Icon_minitimeWed Apr 01, 2009 11:19 am

Loose1969 wrote:
Stranger09 wrote:
Loose1969 wrote:
nick wrote:
Loose1969 wrote:
I thought I'd take "Penetration" and see if I can actually bring out some drums on that.

you should try and bring out some of the celeste a bit more too.

That actually comes out pretty good on the Iggy remix. I'll be working with that one first.

Excellent Smile

As I think you know, if you are using Cool Edit or something similar, it is possible to crib from various sources.

While I'm sure you have the Raw Power LP and CD's, and Rough Power CD, do you have the true stereo FM broadcast of the pre-Bowie mixes?

I have that, it's true stereo unlike the 'bathroom sound' used at the end of the Rough Power CD.

I just have the three CD versions. Still formulating how I'm gonna do this with possibly more than one source. I have a few different editing programs, Acid Pro 4.0 does a lot of cool stuff.

I'll keep everyone posted. This may take a while. Laughing

hmm, I was wondering how many people had the early mixes in stereo...oddly enough I think I found the tape yesterday.

I've had more home pc problems lately that I hope to resolve soon, and once that's done I should be able to upload the mixes.

Dime won't accept them as I expect they'd judge them to be officially released on Rough Power, but there are other sites with less stringent rules, or at least with them being less heavily enforced.

I'd argue that the pre-release mixes are an essential part of this, so I'll try to sort that asap.
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Guest
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Columbia petition? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Columbia petition?   Columbia petition? Icon_minitimeThu Apr 02, 2009 9:20 pm

I'm looking forward to hearing what Loose1969 can make out
of it.
I took all three mixes, Rough Power, Iggymix from 97, and the
Bowie Mix and put them together. It did not work out 100% because
the tapes run some miliseconds different, I tried to correct that but
it did not work that perfectly
Well, at least it sounds weird Smile

http://www.file-upload.net/download-1564476/3Mix-Penetration.flac.html
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Loose1969
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Loose1969


Number of posts : 1565
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PostSubject: Re: Columbia petition?   Columbia petition? Icon_minitimeSat Apr 04, 2009 10:01 am

Well so far- I've taken the Iggy mix and eliminate the majority of the harsh scratchy sound that exists in the recording. It's very clean. But the drums are still very much buried, as is Ron's bass.

With the limited shit I have, I guess this is something, at least. But I haven't given up. Wink

I'll post a link to an mp3 when I feel I've done all I can, for better or worse.
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Stranger09




Number of posts : 490
Registration date : 2009-02-19

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PostSubject: Re: Columbia petition?   Columbia petition? Icon_minitimeSat Apr 04, 2009 12:39 pm

Excellent!

I've just got a better pc here so I'm as happy as larry and I'll try to sort out an upload of the stereo radio broadcast of the pre-Bowie mix...it's like on the Rough Power but on there that bit is horribly echo-ey 'bathroom stereo' from a badly recorded mono tape.

I reckon I'll upload it to MWP...think they'll be ok about it going up there.
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Rob Gallucci

Rob Gallucci


Number of posts : 230
Registration date : 2009-03-03

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PostSubject: Re: Columbia petition?   Columbia petition? Icon_minitimeSun Apr 05, 2009 7:20 pm

Loose1969 wrote:
I'll post a link to an mp3 when I feel I've done all I can, for better or worse.

Looking forward to it!
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Rob Gallucci

Rob Gallucci


Number of posts : 230
Registration date : 2009-03-03

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PostSubject: Re: Columbia petition?   Columbia petition? Icon_minitimeTue May 12, 2009 11:10 pm

Rob Gallucci wrote:
Loose1969 wrote:
I'll post a link to an mp3 when I feel I've done all I can, for better or worse.

Looking forward to it!

Hey Loose - did you manage to get anywhere with this?
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