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 Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions

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Chris Moise




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PostSubject: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions Icon_minitimeTue Sep 08, 2009 6:10 am

I can't find the thread but I remember reading that Rhino discovered an unreleased song from the 1st LP sessions that was left off the 2CD edition for some reason. Maybe it was on the cassette with the John Cale mixes? Did I dream this? If not do we know the name of the song and why it was left off?

On a different note what is the best source for the pre-Bowie Raw Power mix? Is the Bomp Rough Power as good as it gets?
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Luzern

Luzern


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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions Icon_minitimeTue Sep 08, 2009 2:33 pm

Don't know about the unreleased song from the first album.

My favourite version of "Raw Power" is the original vinyl version, which was produced by Iggy Pop and mixed by David Bowie and Iggy Pop. It was also available on the CD for a while, but you need to hear the vinyl for full impact.

The 1997 remix of "Raw Power" (which is the one official "Raw Power" CD you find in the shops these days) has had heavy dynamic range compression applied to it to make it as "loud" as possible. It loses the atmosphere of the original. Ron Asheton hated the remix.

I do not like "Rough Power". To my ears it sounds too "harsh". Maybe because the tape is copy of a copy and not the original? Anyway the sound on the original LP is much more organic.

Furthermore the original LP also gets my vote for historic reasons. It is the sound that was created by Iggy & The Stooges in 1973. It is authentic. No remixing will ever regain the artistic spirit of that time.

In short, get the original vinyl. I tried every other version of "Raw Power", it was only when I heard the original vinyl that I truly started to appreciate the album.
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boogie

boogie


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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions Icon_minitimeTue Sep 08, 2009 4:23 pm

Check the "Penetration" cd for some interesting pre-bowie takes,
slightly better quality than "rough power".
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G, F#, E
Real O Mind
G, F#, E


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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions Icon_minitimeTue Sep 08, 2009 4:52 pm

The song is either called "I'm Sick" or "Asthma Attack", rumours have been circulating that'll be released for years but it does exist. It's a weird jam apparently.
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mark




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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions Icon_minitimeWed Sep 09, 2009 12:23 am

Paul T wrote:
I'm lucky enough to have heard the song. It is a freeform jam, with fairly random words as I remember.

The whole point about the Stooges early on is that they DIDN'T have any songs! Most of the Stooges' early songs started as jams; 1969 was orignally just that two-note riff, a Bo Diddley beat, then loads of soloing and noise. It developed into a more regular song over time. Likewise, Dance Of Romance was a simple guitar riff, which you can hear at the end of Ann. Then, as time went on, more conventional songs were added to the set, like No Fun and Now I Wanna Be Your Dog, which only start getting mentioned in reviews and set lists around the time the album came out. In fact, most people who saw the Stooges live in 69 STILL couldn't really recognise any conventional songs!

Hence, of the half-dozen early 'titles', most were attached to a simple riff or beat. Asthma Attack seems to have been the one freeform jam that made it as far as the Hit Factory, but it didn't make it out..

https://stoogesforum.forumotion.com/jesus-loves-the-stooges-f1/asthma-attack-t751.htm

Iggy wrote:
“We used to have this jam called ‘I’m Sick’ and we did a song at the same time called ‘Asthma Attack’. What that was, right about the time we recorded I got this big disease and practically died. Lost about twenty pounds. I was just up here in this room for about three weeks, just on my back. I literally couldn’t move. Couldn’t do nothin’. But I didn’t want to go to a doctor because I don’t like to do those things at all, because they’re very…they sap one’s strength.

“So we had to do a show, right in the middle of the biggest part of my sickness…(here he paused and played his guitar for awhile)… I was completely…(a similar pause, slightly shorter)…just in total…(third pause, shorter yet)…I can’t describe what kind of sickness it was, except that it was everything at once.

“The funniest thing was that when I was really sick, I had to literally by the will come up on stage arid when I got on stage, I was white as a sheet. It was this way, we did about three jobs. While I was sick, ’cause we could never afford to turn down Even One Job. ‘Cause our backs were always against the wall. This is right when we got signed by Elektra, September and October of ‘68.

“The night Jac Holzman was here from Elektra, we did ‘I’m Sick’, ‘Asthma Attack’ and one other song about being sick. And nobody believed us; everybody thought it was this way of saying ‘I’m Sick of All This’. I was singing songs about what I was really into – during ‘Asthma Attack’ I would wheeze you know, for real. On those jobs I couldn’t even dance on stage. I just barely had to get up and sing and I would fall down there and lay by the mike in pain, you know, I was in Real Pain. People were booing because they thought it was a put on and they’re going, “What’s This?” You know? That was

O*N*E*O*F*T*H*E*O*D*D*E*S*T**L*I*T*T*L*E**T*H*I*N*G*S**

“We did those songs for about three jobs. ‘Asthma Attack’ was a good song too.”

And what did Holzman think? “Well, he didn’t talk to me directly about it. I think he just said it put him REAL UPTIGHT”.
http://beatpatrol.wordpress.com/2009/07/05/dave-marsh-the-stooges-the-incredible-story-1970/
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mark




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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions Icon_minitimeWed Sep 09, 2009 12:51 am

Paul T wrote:
Incidentally, when I was working on the Rhino Fun House two-fer, I heard that there still remains an unreleased track from The Stooges. It's pretty wild, freeform, and is quite possibly an early version of I'm Sick (although it would be unwise to give these early jams the status of true songs, as they were often just a line and one riff). It didn't get put on the RHino reissue because of a complicated contractual fuckup.
https://stoogesforum.forumotion.com/jesus-loves-the-stooges-f1/funhouse-recording-type-t135.htm#982
Paul T wrote:
The guy has Ungano's is the one who sold the debut album out-takes tp Rhino - and is still sitting on a version of I'm Sick! (which is like a Holy Grail of Stooges out-takes. It's mentioned in Open Up and Bleed... he paid good money for them, I imagine, so won't give them up for free, but he is a huge fan and I think bought the tapes as much to enjoy them as to sell them on.
https://stoogesforum.forumotion.com/jesus-loves-the-stooges-f1/1977-escaped-maniacs-t362.htm#3759

Chazz Avery wrote:
I'm friends with Jeff Gold who is listed as "tape researcher" on the "The Stooges" 2CD reissue.
I asked him what he found. This was his reply...

"I actually found (in Danny Field's storage locker) a tape of the complete 1st LP as mixed by John Cale, as well as an outtake, "Asthma Attack" and some other alternate versions. I sold most of this to Rhino, who was going to release the "Cale" version, but of course felt it better advised to split all the stuff up. I didn't have anything but that from The Stooges, but hey, it was a pretty significant find. I'm trying to do something with "Asthma Attack.""

Thought ya might find it interesting.
https://stoogesforum.forumotion.com/jesus-loves-the-stooges-f1/the-stooges-1st-album-t671.htm#8641
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Chris Moise




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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions Icon_minitimeWed Sep 09, 2009 6:38 am

You guys are amazing. Many thanks for all that. Did some of the Cale mixes only get released on some sort of promo 45 Rhino issued?

thanks again!
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Chris Moise




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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions Icon_minitimeWed Sep 09, 2009 7:29 am

While I'm at it are the finished LP version on the FH Sessions box really remixed or did they drop the 1970 mixes in there.

Speaking of...did Iggy and Ron really not remember Lost In The Future at all? If so that must have been surreal to listen to!
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ElRoi

ElRoi


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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions Icon_minitimeWed Sep 16, 2009 5:21 pm

Luzern wrote:
My favourite version of "Raw Power" is the original vinyl version, which was produced by Iggy Pop and mixed by David Bowie and Iggy Pop. It was also available on the CD for a while, but you need to hear the vinyl for full impact.

Is this version the 1993 Sony release?
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mc

mc


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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions Icon_minitimeWed Sep 16, 2009 5:37 pm

Any CD version before 1997 will be the Bowie Mix.
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ElRoi

ElRoi


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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions Icon_minitimeWed Sep 16, 2009 6:02 pm

mc wrote:
Any CD version before 1997 will be the Bowie Mix.

So, is there truly a noticeable sonic difference in Bowie's original mix and Iggy's remix?
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dereksee




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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions Icon_minitimeWed Sep 16, 2009 6:05 pm

Sundazed has the original mix available on vinyl, too. I haven't heard it to compare to my original, but there pressing is probably just as good as (or better than) an original (Columbia did not use high quality vinyl in the 70s).
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adams66




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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions Icon_minitimeWed Sep 16, 2009 6:38 pm

ElRoi says - So, is there truly a noticeable sonic difference in Bowie's original mix and Iggy's remix?

Oh yeah!

Iggy's 1900's remix is a complete overhaul of the original Bowie-mixed 1973 release. It sounds totally different. There's lots of extra sounds that Bowie mixed out which are now more apparent, but also some stuff from the Bowie mix (like the echo on the drums on "Penetration") which is now missing. Lots of differences.

But most of all, the Iggy mix is SO FUCKING LOUD.

There's no contrast, no dynamic range, everything is turned up, Spinal Tap style, to 11. Compare a track like "Gimme Danger" - the Bowie mix starts of gently and quietly and the contrast when James fires up the electric guitars half way through is wonderful. Iggy's version is just LOUD all the way through - no dynamics.

Anyway, some folks prefer it this way and that's the version that is in current circulation. The Bowie mix can still be found, but it's getting rarer. Maybe, with all the inevitable fuss surrounding James' return to action and next year's Raw Power shows, we might get (another) reissue of Raw Power that actually includes a sympathetically remastered Bowie mix. How about it?

Anyway ElRoi, you really need both versions of Raw Power in your collection!

Cheers,

Richard
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mc

mc


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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions Icon_minitimeWed Sep 16, 2009 7:00 pm

Yes a massive difference, If you haven't heard the Bowie mix, you need it.
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ElRoi

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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions Icon_minitimeWed Sep 16, 2009 7:38 pm

adams66 wrote:
ElRoi says - So, is there truly a noticeable sonic difference in Bowie's original mix and Iggy's remix?

mc wrote:
Yes a massive difference, If you haven't heard the Bowie mix, you need it.

So, is this the Bowie mix CD?

http://www.amazon.com/Raw-Power-Iggy-Stooges/dp/B00000DRW0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1253110671&sr=1-2
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ElRoi

ElRoi


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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions Icon_minitimeWed Sep 16, 2009 7:43 pm

adams66 wrote:
Maybe, with all the inevitable fuss surrounding James' return to action and next year's Raw Power shows,...

What is this you say? Do you mean Iggy is going to tour with James and Scott? Man, that would be awesome. They didn't tour any where near me back in 03, 05 or 07.
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ElRoi

ElRoi


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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions Icon_minitimeWed Sep 16, 2009 8:11 pm

Never mind I found the EA article. Wow, imagine what could have been if poor Ron hadn't up and died on us? I will definitely see them this time, by any means necessary.
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ElRoi

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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions Icon_minitimeWed Sep 16, 2009 8:50 pm

ElRoi wrote:
adams66 wrote:
ElRoi says - So, is there truly a noticeable sonic difference in Bowie's original mix and Iggy's remix?

mc wrote:
Yes a massive difference, If you haven't heard the Bowie mix, you need it.

So, is this the Bowie mix CD?

http://www.amazon.com/Raw-Power-Iggy-Stooges/dp/B00000DRW0/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1253110671&sr=1-2

The above Amazon listing claims a CD release date of 1990 in the product details. If that date is correct, would it be before the Iggy remix? According to Rate Your Music.com Raw Power was first issued on CD in 1988 by Columbia. It wasn't reissued until 1997 on Columbia's Legacy label. Does anyone know if this correct?

http://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/the_stooges/raw_power_f4/
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dereksee




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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions Icon_minitimeWed Sep 16, 2009 9:07 pm

The biggest crime (other than the shitty sound with no dynamic range) on the Iggy mix of Raw Power is that James' wicked guitar solo is buried at the end of Search. A true crime.
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ElRoi

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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions Icon_minitimeWed Sep 16, 2009 9:13 pm

dereksee wrote:
The biggest crime (other than the shitty sound with no dynamic range) on the Iggy mix of Raw Power is that James' wicked guitar solo is buried at the end of Search. A true crime.

Do you know the last date that the Bowie mixed version was issued?
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studioguy

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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions Icon_minitimeWed Sep 16, 2009 9:24 pm

dereksee wrote:
The biggest crime (other than the shitty sound with no dynamic range) on the Iggy mix of Raw Power is that James' wicked guitar solo is buried at the end of Search. A true crime.

Very true.

The Iggy mix gives me ear fatigue big time due to the insane mastering. I would love to see James get a crack at it and see what he comes up with. Kill City and New Values sound great.

Look for a CD without the Iggy notes on the back or find it in LP form
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sway

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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions Icon_minitimeThu Sep 17, 2009 12:32 am

i much prefer bowies mix. however, w/ the way the album was recorded, i dont know if it could ever be "perfect"...unless of course, they just redid the whole thing which would be retarded and wouldnt feel right at all. maybe a live album of the raw power material would work. id rather see new material written, period. james is really good at what he does.

still...brilliant album.
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Aku




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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions Icon_minitimeThu Sep 17, 2009 1:07 am

ElRoi wrote:
mc wrote:
Any CD version before 1997 will be the Bowie Mix.

So, is there truly a noticeable sonic difference in Bowie's original mix and Iggy's remix?

YES !!!
Those are like two different records !!!!
I think Bowies MIx is the ONE AND THE ONLY....oh, and I love Iggy┬┤s mix, but the Bowie mix is so much better !!!!
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sway

sway


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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions Icon_minitimeThu Sep 17, 2009 1:38 am

iggy's mix is just way toooooo raw. i dont like digital distortion.
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mc

mc


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PostSubject: Re: Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions   Unreleased song from 1st LP sessions Icon_minitimeThu Sep 17, 2009 2:04 am

the two Bowie mix CD versions I know of:

1989 - on Essential (UK) ESSCD005
1990 - Columbia/CBS (US) CK 32111
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