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 'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix?

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StoogesMySpaceAdmin

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PostSubject: Re: 'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix?   'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Aug 04, 2007 3:36 am

Loose1969 wrote:
My final thoughts on this....
The instrumentation in general stands out quite a bit better on the remix, and the quieter passages (in "Gimme Danger", for example) sound better. But when the volume goes up it's just too fucking harsh.
On the original Bowie mix, the sound is definitely distant and muted. But it's also much cleaner. More atmospheric for sure.
My personal thoughts? Get the Bowie remix, run it through a good cd program and carefully re-EQ it to brighten it up a bit. But don't overdo it. Then crank the mother up to 11.

Sounds good. Thanks for the review. pirat
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Loose1969
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PostSubject: Re: 'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix?   'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Aug 06, 2007 6:04 am

StoogesMySpaceAdmin wrote:
Loose1969 wrote:
My final thoughts on this....
The instrumentation in general stands out quite a bit better on the remix, and the quieter passages (in "Gimme Danger", for example) sound better. But when the volume goes up it's just too fucking harsh.
On the original Bowie mix, the sound is definitely distant and muted. But it's also much cleaner. More atmospheric for sure.
My personal thoughts? Get the Bowie remix, run it through a good cd program and carefully re-EQ it to brighten it up a bit. But don't overdo it. Then crank the mother up to 11.

Sounds good. Thanks for the review. pirat
My pleasure. After all, I got to listen to that album twice. Wink
My only faint hope is that Iggy will somehow see this and think seriously about remastering it a second time. More balls but with less static.
I'd gladly buy a third copy!
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jneilnyc

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PostSubject: Re: 'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix?   'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Aug 07, 2007 12:37 am

My understanding is that they did a real sloppy job with the original multitrack recordings. Apparently there's a lot that's either badly recorded or otherwise impossible to isolate for a proper remix.

I agree that while the Bowie mix was flawed -- however much we like it it doesn't really capture the raw power of the album's title -- the Iggy mix is just as flawed, just in a completely different way.

They really should have just stuck them both on one CD instead of deleting the one that we already knew by heart. I assume it's just a matter of time before someone does a third mix, or at least reissues both of the current ones as a 2-fer.
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Loose1969
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PostSubject: Re: 'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix?   'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Aug 07, 2007 12:39 am

jneilnyc wrote:
My understanding is that they did a real sloppy job with the original multitrack recordings. Apparently there's a lot that's either badly recorded or otherwise impossible to isolate for a proper remix.

I agree that while the Bowie mix was flawed -- however much we like it it doesn't really capture the raw power of the album's title -- the Iggy mix is just as flawed, just in a completely different way.

They really should have just stuck them both on one CD instead of deleting the one that we already knew by heart. I assume it's just a matter of time before someone does a third mix, or at least reissues both of the current ones as a 2-fer.
Aside from trying a 3rd time, I'd say you have the best solution. Let everyone have access to both versions.
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Colin Chaos

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PostSubject: Re: 'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix?   'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Aug 07, 2007 12:49 am

In hindsight, they should have released a double CD set with the original Bowie mix plus the Iggy remix!!!
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Loose1969
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PostSubject: Re: 'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix?   'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Aug 07, 2007 12:56 am

Well, look at how they reissued the first two albums. Made a great package with extra goodies at a decent price.
Do the same thing here. Both mixes on one 2cd set, with possibly some extras.
Like maybe an a capella version of Cock In My Pocket.

Cool
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Colin Chaos

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PostSubject: Re: 'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix?   'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Aug 07, 2007 1:08 am

Sounds like a plan!!!
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PostSubject: Re: 'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix?   'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Aug 07, 2007 1:20 am

Sounds good.
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PostSubject: Re: 'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix?   'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Aug 07, 2007 5:08 am

Loose1969 wrote:
Well, look at how they reissued the first two albums. Made a great package with extra goodies at a decent price.
Do the same thing here. Both mixes on one 2cd set, with possibly some extras.

I think the problem there is that Raw Power is on a different record label to the first two albums - and Sony don't really have a history of doing such great bonus packages. They tend to go for the easy money with greatest hits CDs and greatest hits box sets being the only deviations from the normal catalogue of artists on their label.
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Loose1969
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PostSubject: Re: 'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix?   'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Aug 07, 2007 5:05 pm

Stoogemeister wrote:
Loose1969 wrote:
Well, look at how they reissued the first two albums. Made a great package with extra goodies at a decent price.
Do the same thing here. Both mixes on one 2cd set, with possibly some extras.

I think the problem there is that Raw Power is on a different record label to the first two albums - and Sony don't really have a history of doing such great bonus packages. They tend to go for the easy money with greatest hits CDs and greatest hits box sets being the only deviations from the normal catalogue of artists on their label.
True. I had forgotten about the label change.
Elektra did a tremendous job with the first two. You'd think Sony would be smart enough to follow suit.
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PostSubject: Re: 'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix?   'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Aug 07, 2007 5:20 pm

Thought you might like to see this excerpt which relates to the Bowie mix - it's from an early draft of the Raw Power segment from The Complete Iggy Pop.


...When the sessions ended each band member was given a set of rough mixes and Ron allowed his tapes to be played by WABX radio in Detroit. This broadcast and leaks of other early mixes lead to many bootlegs and semi-official albums such as Rough Power.

Iggy mixed the album as soon as the recording was finished – he was desperate to make the record sound as extreme as possible. With hindsight he wished he had taken a break, then returned to tapes refreshed, but in his quest for the ultimate rock album, the most extreme sound, the craziest record ever, Iggy at first refused to let anyone near. He claims he even slept with the tapes. The result was a mess, which CBS refused to release. As it had been David Bowie who had brokered the deal with CBS, so it was to Bowie that the record company turned when confronted with the first draft of Raw Power. CBS insisted that something be done to remix or rerecord the songs to bring them up to what they considered a releasable standard.

Legend has it that the Raw Power tapes were virtually unsalvageable, as Iggy, unused to the finer techniques of the recording studio had apparently used only three tracks – one for the vocals, one for James’ lead guitar, and one for the rest of the music. Bowie later confirmed that it was almost impossible to mix the album. In between dates on his first US tour Bowie booked two days at Western Sound Studios in Hollywood. Iggy reluctantly agreed to hand over the tapes because he realised that otherwise the album would never come out. David and Iggy’s ‘mixing’ on 24th and 25th October 1972 mainly seemed to consist of pushing the lead vocals up a bit, cutting most of the backing vocals, and oddly suppressing the bass and drums, which at times almost lost Scott’s impressive rhythms altogether. Some intriguing echo effects were also added using a gizmo called a Time Cube. The main beneficiary was “Penetration” which now seemed to have a second drum track, slightly out of phase with everything else. Some effective reverb was added to Iggy’s voice on a couple of other songs. Bowie has later joked about how little he actually did, but his changes, whilst not to everyone’s taste, certainly altered the overall sound of Raw Power quite dramatically.

The net result was an album that was extremely heavy on the treble, shrill, scratchy and harsh. At the time, Iggy loyally praised his friend’s efforts, but the rest of the Stooges hated it. Ron stated in 1973 – ‘That fucking carrot-top ruined that record. I know what it could have been’, and later made further disparaging remarks about the ‘cocaine artsy-farsty mix’. Later, James was more philosophical - ‘we tried to mix it ourselves, but I didn’t know about it (mixing) at that time and Jim didn’t either… so we ended up with just a big bunch of crap. I don’t think Bowie did justice to it either, but it was too late.’ Certainly the Bowie mix had a detrimental effect on the rhythm section, which comes out sounding very weedy. The early mixes broadcast by WABX reveal a much fuller sound. The bottom end is much more dense, there are more backing vocals and the whole album is more listenable.

Upon it’s release in May 1973, nine months after recording, Raw Power garnered some impressive reviews and was generally praised as being a worthy successor to the first two Stooges albums. Creem’s Dave Marsh loved it – ‘the band accelerates beyond anything that’s been recorded, or played live or even dreamed of, in years…’ Let It Rock bizarrely let Raw Power share a review with Mike Oldfield’s beautiful hippie dreamwork Tubular Bells, but praised the album as the ‘best high energy record since Kick Out The Jams.’ Lenny Kaye, writing in Rolling Stone and obviously unaware of the problems incurred in mixing the record, especially liked the ‘ongoing swirl of sound… guitars rising and falling, drums edging forward and then toppling back into the morass’. Even Billboard pointed out that although the Stooges were a visual act ‘they manage to push their brand of deviant rock well on disk.’ In the UK Bowie’s mix often came in for praise; in retrospect this seems surprising, but it must be remembered that in 1973 Bowie could do no wrong. The NME somewhat sycophantically referred to his ‘expertise as master of sound.’


Cheers,

Richard
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Loose1969
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PostSubject: Re: 'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix?   'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Aug 07, 2007 5:31 pm

Great read, thanks for posting.

Damn that album must have been a nightmare to put out.
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Colin Chaos

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PostSubject: Re: 'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix?   'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Aug 18, 2007 7:02 pm

Currently up for grabs on eBay...

Very Rare **Near Mint** 1973 UK Stereo CBS Pressing 'Raw Power' by Iggy & The Stooges! Beautiful Shiny *Nr Mint* Vinyl with Orig CBS Labels and 1st Press Matrix! Vinyl In Beautiful Nr Mint Condition & Sleeve In Nr Mint Condition!

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us


Current bid is £11.49...
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PostSubject: Re: 'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix?   'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Aug 18, 2007 7:13 pm

Nice!
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PostSubject: Re: 'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix?   'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Aug 18, 2007 7:50 pm

Thanks for posting the link, Colin.

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iggy-fan
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PostSubject: Re: 'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix?   'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Aug 19, 2007 1:17 am

Colin Chaos wrote:
Currently up for grabs on eBay...

Very Rare **Near Mint** 1973 UK Stereo CBS Pressing 'Raw Power' by Iggy & The Stooges! Beautiful Shiny *Nr Mint* Vinyl with Orig CBS Labels and 1st Press Matrix! Vinyl In Beautiful Nr Mint Condition & Sleeve In Nr Mint Condition!

<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="https://2img.net/r/ihimizer/img146/6073/rawpowerkh8.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"></a><br>

Current bid is £11.49...

Sorry Guys! This is a later repress. I think it´s the 1981 press.
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PostSubject: Re: 'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix?   'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Aug 19, 2007 3:03 pm

Hi!
Sorry. I was wrong. It´s the -77 repress.

Here´s the original US Press with the single releases from it.
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And Here´s Rough Power with the original photo that the cover is based on.
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PostSubject: Re: 'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix?   'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Aug 19, 2007 3:09 pm

Fuck, do you own those?!?! Shocked

What is that fabric like thing in the first pic?!?!

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PostSubject: Re: 'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix?   'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Aug 19, 2007 5:46 pm

heavy liquid wrote:
Fuck, do you own those?!?! Shocked

What is that fabric like thing in the first pic?!?!

A Mini Skirt
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PostSubject: Re: 'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix?   'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Aug 19, 2007 6:20 pm

Wow. a raw power miniskirt, thats the weirdest but coolest thing
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PostSubject: Re: 'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix?   'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Aug 19, 2007 6:26 pm

iggy-fan wrote:
heavy liquid wrote:
Fuck, do you own those?!?! Shocked

What is that fabric like thing in the first pic?!?!

A Mini Skirt

What a horrid looking skirt. I thought it was a pillow case or something, haha.

Do you own all of that stuff?!?!

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Colin Chaos

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PostSubject: Re: 'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix?   'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Aug 19, 2007 6:39 pm

I'm curious about what the album finally went for on eBay as bidding has now ended!!!

I'm sure Heavy Liquid would look stunning in that mini skirt...
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PostSubject: Re: 'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix?   'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Aug 19, 2007 8:52 pm

heavy liquid wrote:
iggy-fan wrote:
heavy liquid wrote:
Fuck, do you own those?!?! Shocked

What is that fabric like thing in the first pic?!?!

A Mini Skirt

What a horrid looking skirt. I thought it was a pillow case or something, haha.

Do you own all of that stuff?!?!

Yes! And the skirt it´s really to small for my wife too. But maybe later for my daughter...
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PostSubject: Re: 'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix?   'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Aug 19, 2007 8:53 pm

it sure is cool that theres a skirt of iggy pop.
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PostSubject: Re: 'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix?   'Raw Power' 1973 Bowie mix? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Aug 19, 2007 10:03 pm

Some more Raw Power Goodies. Japan promo LP etc...

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket
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