I miss the unpredictable Iggy

While I find James, in just one year, to be my favorite rock intrigue story of the 21st century so far, and am certainly interested in what's happening/ahead for the band, I'm finding my current Iggy-love waning a bit (I know... awwwww, poor baby) due to the utter lack of what helped make him a legend, his complete unpredictability. Playing it safe is not my idea of fun when it comes to Danger Stooge, and while nobody wants him risking his life again, it's getting boring, and that's one thing Ig never was pre '90. I hope he's not into tofu... Hopefully, the new Williamson material lights him back up.

Do you mean that his stage performance is too safe or too predictable? I can understand he plays it safe(r) with himself at his age - no problem with that.

But I've noticed on the various YouTube clips and so on that his links between songs and his movements onstage are often repeated gig to gig. Is that what you mean by predictable? I was surprised when I noticed it anyway.

'Predictable' is never good.

Is it for sure that there's new material on the way? I hope so. The band can't just want to tour the old stuff forever, surely. That would be really playing safe.

The most unpredictable and interesting thing would be for The Stooges to give the old songs a rest, and tour all-new material. Maybe quieter music, maybe stranger music, maybe not even rock and roll music at all... who knows? It would be great to hear all new music from them, but what would the worldwide stadium/festival audiences think? There must be many who want 'predictable' from the singer, and from the music.

??

he's old, man... let's give him a break

Yeah, but old or not, new stuff is what matters. The reformation of the Stooges has been a wonderful thing, but I still hope for some new music. We got The Weirdness, but now James is back in the fold... what's next? I can't wait. I hope it's unpredictable.

woody wrote:

Do you mean that his stage performance is too safe or too predictable?
But I've noticed his movements onstage are often repeated gig to gig.
Is it for sure that there's new material on the way?
The band can't just want to tour the old stuff forever, surely. That would be really playing safe.
The most unpredictable and interesting thing would be for The Stooges to give the old songs a rest, and tour all-new material.
Maybe quieter music, maybe stranger music, maybe not even rock and roll music at all...
It would be great to hear all new music from them, but what would the worldwide stadium/festival audiences think?
There must be many who want 'predictable' from the singer, and from the music.

Great reply, Woody.

But first, if he was "old" he wouldn't be out there, and I think he'll be out there for years to come, what else would he do, nothing but paint, collect, and tan? That certainly wasn't the GG Allin motto!

It's both safe and predictable, with the same limited words and movements, even very little nuance that I can tell... from 1000's of miles away. That's completely opposite of what used to be, and while I'm certainly not expecting prime time insanity, it would befit the image and fact to leave some of the routine behind. What I see in James is someone who wouldn't be back in the game to simply trot out rocking blase' for fun and $. I think he wants to spend whatever little time is left in kicking some serious ass and insure an even stronger legacy this time around to prove to all and forever that he wasn't just a fluke that got lucky with time.
New songs and basically a whole new set list is just what the doctor ordered, Woody, with the type of changes you mentioned being a real possibility. I'll bet James wants to push it to the max, and Iggy might significantly be the less ambitious of the two now, being more concerned with what the public thinks and not wanting to offend too much. Again, not exactly the focus during the Stooges' original heydays, but sadly we're way more corporate minded these days, and there goes the edge that makes it the real deal, if they let it.
If there are those that desire boring predictability from The Stooges ...other than the money bags, then why would they even care about them? That's not rock n roll, that's loserville. I do believe James is the driving force now and I fully expect him to surprise many with some killer output, even if we don't hear it all for a long time, as Iggy's the one with final call on what happens. I would hope he's not content merely resting on that RnRHoF award, but I doubt James will allow half assed crap like happened before Ron's final exit.

just a hunch here, but it seems to me that now, more than ever, jim's
performing the 'Iggy' persona. that means, using all the familiar gimmicks and schticks.
leave nothing out to be improvised. just like a tv actor repeating his character lines over and over again. but other than the commercial aspect of things that was mentioned, maybe there's also a matter of stamina. in this time in his life he need this routine.
and hey, even back then it was a routine, maybe much wilder and dangerous in a way, but still a routine. everyone knew a show would end up with blood sweat and tears.
the crowd expected that and iggy obliged. so, all in all, it's the smae pattern all over again.

I've been enjoying the 3 new albums that the 2 surviving New York Dolls have created in the last few years. In one documentary Sylvain Sylvain said something like "we could make a nice living touring the world forever just playing the old songs from the first two albums, as a sort of retro band, but that's not interesting... we have new things to say, because we're older now, and our fans have grown up too' Something along those lines. I think the new music he and Johansen have made since their reformation has been really wonderful.

I hope James has that kind of ambition, and that Iggy is still hungry.

New music would inspire a new approach to stagecraft maybe?

In my opinion the finest moments of the Tribute to Ron were the addition of the orchestra and the hawaiian steel guitar - maybe the least predictable aspects of the concert?

Here's to the future!

hmm, interesting points...

When I've listened through the bootlegs I've been working through, it is marked how shows from, in particular, late 1979 through to the early 80's were punctuated by rants, and a particularly rampant Iggy.

The 90's shows I listened through in particular, were still very exciting and featured excellent playing (which shows how short sighted the likes of NME writers were when being dismissive of Iggy's band), but I noticed even featured the same ad libs in different shows.

I haven't listend to a lot of recent shows, but the same might be the case.

HOWEVER, when I saw Iggy in 2005 it was the joint best show I saw in my life (in that the other show was The Fall playing Brighton that same year...and no, 2005 was not the first year I went to gigs, nor by either artist, I've been gig-going since 1990), and the more recent Stooges show I saw last year was great too.

I think Iggy has simply changed a little as an artist does, can still produce a very exciting show. For me, they may not make such great repeated listens on bootlegs, but are great to witness, and the fact he is able to go out and do the business, with mostly original Stooges members too (the grim reaper sadly preventing more not being there), is a GREAT THING in my opinion, as he's bring awe inspiring music to a lot of people, including new fans / converting people to the Stooges' music.

I've been to see the Stooges twice, in 2008, before James and then last year. The concert with James was far superior, with its more diverse set list and a darker, for lack of a better word, stage personna on behalf of Iggy. This was perhaps due to the still fresh loss of Ron and the focus on being the "the remains of the fucking Stooges". I enjoyed both shows immensely but what was lacking was truely great latter-day material. You would think that a band with such a reputation that has survived as much a they have could write some truely great songs of refelction and altered perspective. Although few bands have ever been able to recapture the sparkk that made them great, the Rolling Stones included, I remain convinced that the Stooges should be the ones to break that curse. Perhaps Iggy is too far gone, and there is no edge left to his outlook, maybe he is all calculation and corporation now, but that doesn't stop me from yearning to hear the lament of old men who have found vindication in that which almost destroyed them as young men.

The Dolls analogy is a good one, they aren't resting on history or routine but are forging straight ahead with fine writing and performances, and you know the dead guys are cheering them on. I'm sticking with James being of the same mindset and keeping an edge to the band, he really seems to be smokin' on stage more and more, and I'll bet he's so jacked full of new material it's driving him to push them all. Altho James says Iggy is going harder than ever these days, it's pretty much up to Ig if he's going to match the intensity I expect to see coming up via James' input. For sure, there's only so much Iggy can do onstage without red-lighting, so maybe he needs to back off from the public's frontman expectations of him, slow the heartrate down, and really get 'into' the new material, more like he does when he get's all Sinatra on us. This could open up whole new extremes within him that keep him viable for years to come. But Iggy's a complicated caveman, and there's more to it all than us mere mortals know.

I hesitated to post and waited a full day after reading this thread. I don't want to start any arguments or create drama.......and yes I know I have been defending Iggy and the band since dirt when I was the only person defending them.

Okay, here goes....what exactly do you people want? I know you want blood and Iggy has been giving blood for 42 years. My question is...why does it always have to be his?

Predictable? Not the Ig I saw April 19, not the band I saw April 19. That was one of the best gigs I ever saw them perform and the absolute best one of the 6 I have seen in the last year.

Yes, Iggy calls the crowd up to dance on Shake Appeal. At the tribute he said, I promised not to do this and did it anyway. He did some major crowd surfing several times. There was electricity in the air. The energy level should have blown that roof off. It was magically and Iggy was humble and you could see how much he and the rest of the band enjoyed the crowd. It was mutual love!

Iggy does have physical issues that were just not there in his 20's and 30's. But he still gives 200% . The whole band gives 200%. With the exception of Mike, they are all 60+. How many rockers are still going strong and still going great at 60?

If that's predictable, so be it. I'll take predictable greatness over any unpredictable newer, younger bands any day.

STOOGE POWER OR NO POWER! ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTE!!!

msteeln wrote:

The Dolls analogy is a good one, they aren't resting on history or routine but are forging straight ahead with fine writing and performances, and you know the dead guys are cheering them on. I'm sticking with James being of the same mindset and keeping an edge to the band, he really seems to be smokin' on stage more and more, and I'll bet he's so jacked full of new material it's driving him to push them all. Altho James says Iggy is going harder than ever these days, it's pretty much up to Ig if he's going to match the intensity I expect to see coming up via James' input. For sure, there's only so much Iggy can do onstage without red-lighting, so maybe he needs to back off from the public's frontman expectations of him, slow the heartrate down, and really get 'into' the new material, more like he does when he get's all Sinatra on us. This could open up whole new extremes within him that keep him viable for years to come. But Iggy's a complicated caveman, and there's more to it all than us mere mortals know.

The New York Dolls are really showing how its done as far as paying homage to the band's past without being captive to it. Perhaps it is because there are only two of the original five members left but at least they are acknowledging the passage of time and not trying to gloss over it. I truely do love the Stooges, but since I am only 25 years old I never saw Iggy or the Stooges anywhere near their prime. I think it is admirable that they have brought as much passion and energy to their shows as they have but there also comes a time when doing your best to duplicate something that cannot be recreated becomes self-defeating. They remain talented musicians but perhaps they could take a real risk and try something other than cranking out I Wanna Be Your Dog and inviting "stage invasions". I'm sure Iggy could do some great dark, soulful ballads or blues influenced songs in the vein of Nick Cave, Roberet Plant or even Tom Jones of late. Anything that could represent his life past the age of 25 would be welcome. Even his bare-chested prancing around the stage has become a farce with his sagging skin becoming tabloid fodder. The Stooges do not have to be synonymous with their old material, they failed abysmally to update their sound on The Weirdness, maybe it is time to try again with a different direction that plays from the strength of their 60+ years rather than turning their age into an enemy they must always battle. The NY Dolls just put out a new album that is a great listen and a real lesson in how an older band should do it, its also their second one in the last three years. I hope James and Iggy can follow Sylvain Sylvain and David Johansen's lead and bring the Stooges into the 21st century and middle age without compromising the rebellious spirit that got them this far.

C'mon, Nat, you read the thread, there's nothing of the sort said anywhere. In fact I've twice said we don't want anything bad for Iggy, we're not ignorant blood sucking animals, geez. Nor do I want him to do what doesn't come naturally to him, if he prefers running on cruise control these days, so be it, for sure his cruise control is high rev for most anybody else that can be named. He's certainly doing 'his job', and I think we're pretty stoked about it all, but it's obvious he's got a pattern that he largely sticks to, and has for the last 15 years, and no doubt there's good reasons for it, "it's not easy being Iggy". But he took on the major job of resurecting THE STOOGES, that comes with some serious baggage, both good and bad, along with the additional weight of being a new HoF'er. To me, it's a conundrum of him being boring COMPARED to his far from boring legend, what's in his head about creative relevance/personal satisfaction, pacing himself to preserve his health and currently full abilities, doing what he may feel is expected by fans, keeping up with demands of his writing partner/guitarist, and god knows what else. It merely struck me after seeing more new video of him, that we've been seeing it for a good while now, and maybe he's getting tired of it, maybe more than I am, and I'm definitely not all that tired of it. I think the band is charging full speed now, and he's got a whole lot to keep up with, truly a major job. Being one of my top influences, I'll always want optimum performance from them all, it's what made them, and I hope it doesn't fade prematurely, again.
Nat, thanx for the post, valuable insights from one who was there more than myself, so don't hold back.
Sweet6, I fully agree.

sweet_sixteen wrote:

The New York Dolls are really showing how its done as far as paying homage to the band's past without being captive to it. Perhaps it is because there are only two of the original five members left but at least they are acknowledging the passage of time and not trying to gloss over it. I truely do love the Stooges, but since I am only 25 years old I never saw Iggy or the Stooges anywhere near their prime. I think it is admirable that they have brought as much passion and energy to their shows as they have but there also comes a time when doing your best to duplicate something that cannot be recreated becomes self-defeating. They remain talented musicians but perhaps they could take a real risk and try something other than cranking out I Wanna Be Your Dog and inviting "stage invasions". I'm sure Iggy could do some great dark, soulful ballads or blues influenced songs in the vein of Nick Cave, Roberet Plant or even Tom Jones of late. Anything that could represent his life past the age of 25 would be welcome. Even his bare-chested prancing around the stage has become a farce with his sagging skin becoming tabloid fodder. The Stooges do not have to be synonymous with their old material, they failed abysmally to update their sound on The Weirdness, maybe it is time to try again with a different direction that plays from the strength of their 60+ years rather than turning their age into an enemy they must always battle. The NY Dolls just put out a new album that is a great listen and a real lesson in how an older band should do it, its also their second one in the last three years. I hope James and Iggy can follow Sylvain Sylvain and David Johansen's lead and bring the Stooges into the 21st century and middle age without compromising the rebellious spirit that got them this far.

That's a really good point about the Dolls. Even if people don't like it, the band is doing what it wants and how it wants it.

Iggy has occasionally done his crooning Rock 'N Roller...no reason why he can't resurrect that now. I'd love to see them try something new, and JW certainly has the chops to bring whatever Ig wants to the table. I dont really have an opinion whether the shows are 100% rehearsed or not now. All the big names do it - Stones, Springsteen, et. al. I think the performances are geared toward the crowd THAT NIGHT, and not at everyone else who will watch it thru bootleg/live recordings.

Photos have been posted in Scene of the crime from the Ron Tribute. Check them out.

Thanks for posting, HL!

Couldnt agree with Natalie more, the rest of you, not so much. Ive seen the dolls recently and theyre good in concert, but not nearly as exciting as the stooges. The last thing i want to see is iggy on stage with a piano, crooning. Hes arock and roller. If he doesnt write anymore songs, tuff tittie. The stooges catalouge is deep enough to keep it interesting. You have to remember most fans arent as obsessive as we are. Pouring over bootlegs and dvds. Most in the US have had maybe one or two chances to see the stooges, they dont tour that much over here. The only bad thing is, once they see the stooges in concert, all their little emo bands will pale in comparison! STOOGE POWER OR NO POWER !!!!!

You are right that the stooges catalougue is deep enough. However, it seems like the tour this year will be the same setlist as last year. That's rather disapointing

popmansam wrote:

Couldnt agree with Natalie more, the rest of you, not so much.
The last thing i want to see is iggy on stage with a piano, crooning. Hes a rock and roller.
If he doesnt write anymore songs, tuff tittie.
The stooges catalouge is deep enough to keep it interesting.

But Natalie came straight out slamming something that doesn't exist, that 'we won't be happy without Iggy's blood'. The premise of her argument simply can't be followed, but the rest is agreeable. Nobody wants an ivory tinkling crooner Stooge, but a more heavy / insightful / creative interpretation of new material that JW, the main writer now, is putting together would be a huge step towards maintaining their inspiring / true rocking legacy beyond these years. Neither blood nor a major style change is warranted to simply kick things up a notch to keep it interesting per the frontman, even if it's familiar material. Sure, the majority of modern fans havn't spent decades listening, even disecting, the catalog and most probably wouldn't know or care about the difference in any set list, but to most of us in the minority that will do the heavy lifting of carrying The Stooges into perpetuity, as we have all these previous no-Stooges decades, do care about the integrity of both old and new output whether it's on stage or by the pen.

I'd pay to hear a tinkling ivories Stooge, or a Hawaiian steel Stooge, or a crooning Stooge. Who wouldn't want new material? The question is whether there's anything left to say. I really hope so, because these are different times.

Hey Guys,

Let's chill out a minute. I did not say you won't be happy without Iggy's blood. That's taking my statement to a whole new and unfriendly level which was never my intent. I said I know you want blood for the simple reason that he has been known to bleed on stage. For starters, I was there at Max's when he was cut falling on the broken glass. It was an accident. He played it up but he did not do it on purpose. That gig was certainly unpredictable and not the last time blood was involved.

But my premise, as one of you stated, was about the blood and that you guys were blood suckers. No, no, no! That was not my premise and I apologize if we all got mixed signals here. The point I was making is that the band I saw perform recently was not boring and not predictable. They still have it! Yes, most of the set list stays the same but I truly think that is what fans want to hear. For years fans were chomping at the bit to see James live and he does not disappoint.

I'd also love some new music. I'd hate the Weirdness to be the last recorded Stooge offering. Iggy has stated that they may record some of the boot classics and some new work. James has stated that maybe there will be an EP. I wait in hope.

Side bar...if you want a new offering by Iggy, check out Steve Mackay's new CD "Sometimes Like This I Talk". There is song called" the Prisoner" with vocals by Ypsi Jim. It's a really good song and I like the entire CD very much. Steve sings on most songs and you may be surprised how multi talented he is.

I'll be seeing the band in California in September.(no European trip for me this year) If my opinion changes about predictability, I'll post again.

Natalie

Natalie wrote:

Side bar...if you want a new offering by Iggy, check out Steve Mackay's new CD "Sometimes Like This I Talk". There is song called" the Prisoner" with vocals by Ypsi Jim. It's a really good song and I like the entire CD very much. Steve sings on most songs and you may be surprised how multi talented he is.

Natalie

Thanks for reminding me Natalie. I've just ordered the 7".

Thanx for the reply, Natalie, I think we're all pretty much on the same page per our boys. The glass info, which rekindles the dusty fact in my memory, is just the kind of input that makes this forum so valuable, and I'll definitely be looking forward to Steve's CD. No doubt my being at a new Stooges show would quickly blow away any assumptions or petty wishes. We're so lucky to have these fleeting opportunities that I might actually reconsider doing the Hollywood show instead of dreaming of them ever hitting my state.

Ig's smart mate, this is the ideal time to advertise 'The Stooges'music after the hall of fame etc. He will jump to something shortly, especially with James there . The miester in Australia loving the 'Stooges"

How much I love the Stooges and however glad I am the Stooges and Iggy and the Stooges reformed and we had the chance to see the Stooges several times, I miss the solo work of Iggy. Listening to the gig 'maison de la radio' at the moment and I really love it. I think within a few years Iggy will turn to doing gigs and music like this.

Those who've heard the new shows on myriad formats still are in for a surprise when you see them live. I'm an advocate of all senses firing like pistons, and the show I saw in Ann Arbor had it all amongst bizarre happenstances you don't "hear" on the aural stuff-- Iggy crawling into the audience to stare at people, lungs heaving and dripping gallons of sweat on all around him (fun olfactory too I'll bet;) more band interaction than one might suspect and of course, making all the complicated, breakneck speed music seem easy. I've also heard non-prior fans/new converts espouse this as the best live reunion band around, bar none.