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Nadja

Nadja


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PostSubject: Re: Ungano's   Ungano's - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Sep 02, 2008 7:35 pm

JESUS_LOVES_THE_STOOGES wrote:
Wow, It's Nitebob ! Cool to meet you man !

Yeah, any recording's or photo's you did yourself back then ? or more stories you can share ?/

PS - My dad was at the Michigan Palace 73 show ! Smile

Were you at any other Michigan Stooges shows ?


Cheers !

yeh, look forward to more stories nitebob! Smile
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Donald




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PostSubject: Re: Ungano's   Ungano's - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Sep 02, 2008 7:37 pm

homesickjameswilliamson wrote:
dogfood was probly nthi like the soldier version, so maybe it was unrecordable, and they didnt play it so it was prolby unformed or something

I agree. I can't imagine Dog Food fitting in very well with the rest of Fun House as it sounds on Soldier. I remember when it came out hearing that it was an old Stooges number though.
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homesickjameswilliamson
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PostSubject: Re: Ungano's   Ungano's - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Sep 02, 2008 7:59 pm

yeh? weird, it fits with soldier, well i suppose it would, but yeh if it was any good if wudve been played more at the time

is there any record of it being played?
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adams66




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PostSubject: Re: Ungano's   Ungano's - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Sep 02, 2008 8:11 pm

I've never found any proof that it was ever played in 1970. And the fact that it wasn't even attempted during the Fun House sessions makes me think that it wasn't even a song as such back then. Maybe it was just a few lines of lyrics that Iggy came up with in 1970, maybe the song arose in a soundcheck once or twice, but it really doesn't seem likely that "Dog Food" as we know it from soldier existed in any meaningful form back in 1970.
Where did the story that it was Fun House era song actually come from? It's always been quoted as fact but I wonder who said it first? Was it just that it refers to Betsey in the present tense as being 14 so people assumed that it was an oldie?
Cheers,
Richard
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Paul T




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PostSubject: Re: Ungano's   Ungano's - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Sep 02, 2008 8:17 pm

adams66 wrote:
I've never found any proof that it was ever played in 1970. And the fact that it wasn't even attempted during the Fun House sessions makes me think that it wasn't even a song as such back then. Maybe it was just a few lines of lyrics that Iggy came up with in 1970, maybe the song arose in a soundcheck once or twice, but it really doesn't seem likely that "Dog Food" as we know it from soldier existed in any meaningful form back in 1970.
Where did the story that it was Fun House era song actually come from? It's always been quoted as fact but I wonder who said it first? Was it just that it refers to Betsey in the present tense as being 14 so people assumed that it was an oldie?
Cheers,
Richard
Yup, I agree, and we've been here before. The lines about Dog Food refer to a blues documentary that came out in the 70s, definitely after 71.... I think I've posted about this and looked out a quote already...
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homesickjameswilliamson
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PostSubject: Re: Ungano's   Ungano's - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Sep 02, 2008 8:24 pm

spose ur rite, dunno, though y wud iggy drag up some random memory of a 14 girl he used to screw lol

and isnt there somethin about dogfood, like its wat they called coke or smack or somehin, i dunno, u guys are the experts ill go w/ u
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G, F#, E
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G, F#, E


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PostSubject: Re: Ungano's   Ungano's - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Sep 02, 2008 8:58 pm

Betsy had a deep effect on Iggy. "I'm Sick Of You", "Dog Food" and "Candy" all mention her. Though "Candy" doesn't name her its obviously about her.

I have never personally beleived the "Dog Food" rumour. It was just a suggestion to HJW as to what he might be thinking of.
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homesickjameswilliamson
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PostSubject: Re: Ungano's   Ungano's - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Sep 02, 2008 9:14 pm

spose ur rite, like a muse kinda thing, u'no

dunno where that started, maybe just the mention of her so far into his career
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mc

mc


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PostSubject: Re: Ungano's   Ungano's - Page 5 Icon_minitimeTue Sep 02, 2008 9:42 pm

G, F#, E wrote:
I'm pretty comfident it would have been "Lost In The Future", on its first take it already sounds good enough to be on Fun House.

I think you mean "Upper And Lower Egypt". Its a Pharoh Sanders song (its where the bass riff of "Little Doll" was stolen from). This has been mentioned a few times but its alway been confirmed that this was the last song played before the encore. It was just a renamed L.A. Blues.

Don't think there's ever been mention of Lost in the Future being played live, I personally don't think it fits in with the rest of Funhouse and would be surprised if they did.

The Stooges did seem to have a Jazz jam called Way Down in Egypt later on in 1970 see this article with Steve Mackay (2nd Page, 3rd Column of text, half way down): http://www.terrascope.co.uk/MyBackPages/Steve%20Mackay.pdf
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mc

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PostSubject: Re: Ungano's   Ungano's - Page 5 Icon_minitimeWed Sep 03, 2008 12:30 pm

For those interested while we're on the subject, here's a download for a 14min Carnal Kitchen track (Steve Mackay's free jazz band from before he joined the Stooges):

rapidshare.com 01_Death_City_-_Steve_McKay__Carnal_Kitchen_.mp3
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homesickjameswilliamson
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PostSubject: Re: Ungano's   Ungano's - Page 5 Icon_minitimeWed Sep 03, 2008 2:51 pm

cool thanks mc!

dd they ever properly release something or is it just bootleg stuff
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mc

mc


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PostSubject: Re: Ungano's   Ungano's - Page 5 Icon_minitimeWed Sep 03, 2008 4:52 pm

Don't think they did an LP, but there's very little info about them on the web so who knows?
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pernil




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PostSubject: Re: Ungano's   Ungano's - Page 5 Icon_minitimeWed Sep 03, 2008 5:04 pm

Re. "Dog Food"

I think this was more likely a post-first LP tune, latter part of 1969, possibly shortlived. I have some quotes on this somewhere - for the unpublished Stooges book (and 3rd edition of "The Wild One") I worked on for most of the '90s!

Have just registered to this forum. Couldn't resist. High level of knowledge and great recollections!

Also have many questions for experts out there on the 1971 repertoire of songs. Had always imagined most to be Iggy/Williamson collaborations, but James could not recall writing/working on any of them when I sent him recordings (although past use of drugs probably can account for some of the memory problems, I guess). I tend to think most if not all were actually penned by Iggy on his own - explains some of his frustration at that point of getting musical input from other band members. There are some gems in the '71 set!

Any comments on the origins of the '71 songs (apart from "I Got A Right" which we know was introduced in the second half of 1970 or so, being Iggy's first solo effort)? And on "Dog Food" being a '69 tune?

Per (Nilsen)
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mc

mc


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PostSubject: Re: Ungano's   Ungano's - Page 5 Icon_minitimeWed Sep 03, 2008 5:16 pm

Welcome Per, great to have another expert on board! I'd love to see your book released again, mine was well loved and falling to pieces before being destroyed in a flood.

You'd certainly imagine James to remember writing these 71 tracks as they would have been the first thing he worked on after joining the Stooges.

James came into the band the reqest of Ron and I'm guessing Ron was still writing most of the riffs at this point (with help from JW who knows?). The 71 stuff is a pretty big shift in direction from Funhouse though! Maybe the shift from Coke to Smack had some influence on the sound too.
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pernil




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PostSubject: Re: Ungano's   Ungano's - Page 5 Icon_minitimeWed Sep 03, 2008 5:29 pm

Re: Penning riffs...

Actually I think Ron was not writing that much at that point, latter part of 1970 and onwards, as I think Iggy was shouldering a lot of responsibility, incl. penning riffs (although I'd refer to it as chord sequences!). "I Got A Right" is a pretty amazing tune if one is to believe that had Ron done most of the music up to that point - I think Iggy did do more than many people think (although maybe not as much as he has made it out to be, claiming to have written every note on "Fun House"). I guess only the people involved, w. memory intact, could answer these types of questions.

Per
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homesickjameswilliamson
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PostSubject: Re: Ungano's   Ungano's - Page 5 Icon_minitimeWed Sep 03, 2008 5:29 pm

welcome aboard Per! good to have you, its great to have an influx of ppl with this kind of knowledge and even history (Nitebob's here btw) here, its great, the first stop for stoogephiles

welcome

Quote :
The 71 stuff is a pretty big shift in direction from Funhouse though! Maybe the shift from Coke to Smack had some influence on the sound too.

i'd say it would!! lol, it seems to have gotten better as they got worse, like marijuana/acid and you get the debut, chilled out, slightly paranoid thing, the full on acid and bit of cocaine u get funhouse which is just outta control craziness then u introduce i guess morecoke and some smack u get hte 71 stuff, a bit tougher and colder almost, then u fall into heroin, almost all the band and u get a last desperate attempt in raw power

i'd love to here more and properly recorded 1971 stuff

what stuff did u send to JW Per? the live 1971 thing?


thanks
HJW
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homesickjameswilliamson
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PostSubject: Re: Ungano's   Ungano's - Page 5 Icon_minitimeWed Sep 03, 2008 5:32 pm

Quote :
I think Iggy did do more than many people think (although maybe not as much as he has made it out to be, claiming to have written every note on "Fun House"). I guess only the people involved, w. memory intact, could answer these types of questions.

so do i, and i dont believe he did most of funhouse, i remember him sayin he wrote down on teh street in a closet in please kill me, i think, to get away from spudface or watever her name was, lol

and he said in that 96 mojo interview that TV Eye was 'his baby' or something, but i'd imagine that to be a ron creation, dunno, otherwise i think it was pretty much dave actually (dirt/funhouse) and ron followed, i think it was a band thing except the initial idea wouldve come iggy, ron or dave, obiously and they go from there
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Nadja

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PostSubject: Re: Ungano's   Ungano's - Page 5 Icon_minitimeWed Sep 03, 2008 5:43 pm

pernil wrote:
Re: Penning riffs...

Actually I think Ron was not writing that much at that point, latter part of 1970 and onwards, as I think Iggy was shouldering a lot of responsibility, incl. penning riffs (although I'd refer to it as chord sequences!). "I Got A Right" is a pretty amazing tune if one is to believe that had Ron done most of the music up to that point - I think Iggy did do more than many people think (although maybe not as much as he has made it out to be, claiming to have written every note on "Fun House"). I guess only the people involved, w. memory intact, could answer these types of questions.

Per

good to have more expert info and opinions here, thanks pernil! Smile
and it's really interesting, that period, the second part of 1970 going into 71, I mean from point of view of who was really doing most of the songs and stuff!
and as someone pointed out, yeh the 71 stuff is SO different to the likes of Funhouse!! There's got to be some good reasons for that! I sure don't have ANY expert knowledge but I always just assumed it was largely because of James coming in and getting more influence
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G, F#, E
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PostSubject: Re: Ungano's   Ungano's - Page 5 Icon_minitimeWed Sep 03, 2008 6:21 pm

I think Iggy gets (and gives himself) a lot more song writing credit than he probably deserved. As a drummer its very likely Iggy came up with beats but I doubt he wrote riffs apart from a couple like "I Got A Right".

It has been agreed that he did start it off the songwriting by making 'Asthma Attack" but I think you need to give Ron credit for the riffs from 1969 - 1970. Then James from 1972 to 1973. And a collaboration in 1971.

And Iggy defenetly did NOT write "Down On The Street" note for note in one night. The development of the lyrics on the Fun House sessions show that
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homesickjameswilliamson
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PostSubject: Re: Ungano's   Ungano's - Page 5 Icon_minitimeWed Sep 03, 2008 6:29 pm

i don think he said he wrote it, just the riff, cant remember, ill have to look at it again, but yeh i belivee him about that actually, and yeh as far as lyrics go you can see their development in the sessions

but as far as other stuff goes, he didnt write many riffs (as far as we know) cept like i got a right, penentration and down on the street (some of their best! lol)
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G, F#, E
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PostSubject: Re: Ungano's   Ungano's - Page 5 Icon_minitimeWed Sep 03, 2008 6:31 pm

No Williamson wrote "Penetration" Iggy just helped arrange it and I dont beleive that he wrote "Down On The Street".
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Nadja

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PostSubject: Re: Ungano's   Ungano's - Page 5 Icon_minitimeWed Sep 03, 2008 6:35 pm

homesickjameswilliamson wrote:
i don think he said he wrote it, just the riff, cant remember, ill have to look at it again, but yeh i belivee him about that actually, and yeh as far as lyrics go you can see their development in the sessions

but as far as other stuff goes, he didnt write many riffs (as far as we know) cept like i got a right, penentration and down on the street (some of their best! lol)

down on the street? Iggy wrote that riff?
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G, F#, E
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PostSubject: Re: Ungano's   Ungano's - Page 5 Icon_minitimeWed Sep 03, 2008 6:38 pm

I dont believe he did. Before The Stooges reunion he seemed to boast A LOT about writing every note The Stooges ever played.
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homesickjameswilliamson
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PostSubject: Re: Ungano's   Ungano's - Page 5 Icon_minitimeWed Sep 03, 2008 6:40 pm

Quote :
No Williamson wrote "Penetration" Iggy just helped arrange it

oh yeh, ur rite, actualy, wel they kinda co-wrote it though didnt they? i remember reading they were in a small bedroom on london and workin on it

and im still pretty sure iggy wrote down on the street, tho really i think they each start something like a riff or bassline, and it forms from there, so really funhouse was a collaborative thing, unlike the others, were it woudlve been ron's riffs on the stooges, or james riffs on raw power etc u'no
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G, F#, E
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PostSubject: Re: Ungano's   Ungano's - Page 5 Icon_minitimeWed Sep 03, 2008 6:46 pm

I'm still not convinced "Down On The Street really does sound so Ron like.
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