Anyone else Partched?

The topic title is probably just a colloquialism of england (meaning thirsty) but i have a point to ask about. Stooge roots. I know a lot of them, and have looked into a lot of them, apart from the obvious ones, but i recently got into Ravi Shankar and Sun Ra because of the stooges. Anyway i looked into Harry Partch and he's pretty cool too.

Does anyone know of any other influences the stooges had along these lines?

The more obvious ones --- John Coltrane, Pharoah Sanders - apparently the riff for 'Little Doll 'is straight from Sanders' 'Upper Egypt Lower Egypt' - man, have I got to check that out!! Also Gregorian chants, doesn't Ron say somewhere that Iggy had a record of Gregorian chants and loved it - (awww!)
can't think of any others off the top of my head

what do you think of Ravi Shankar hsjw? I'm Indian myself but i've never sat down to listen to any of his stuff - in spite of his influence on Ron Asheton's guitar-playing!!!!

Little Doll from Upper Egypt Lower Egypt - they must've been doing some good drugs! I've got quite a bit of Pharoah and LA Blues is probably the closest to any of it.

Ravi is great too, maybe that's where We Will Fall came from. Long beautiful drones - get Three Ragas.

mc wrote:

Little Doll from Upper Egypt Lower Egypt - they must've been doing some good drugs! I've got quite a bit of Pharoah and LA Blues is probably the closest to any of it.

Ravi is great too, maybe that's where We Will Fall came from. Long beautiful drones - get Three Ragas.

So, mc, you're saying that that riff doesn't resemble anything from Upper Egypt Lower Egypt at all? anyway, I reckon it'd be interesting to hear some Sanders, myself. I haven't really heard much jazz at all, not even Coltrane

For so far I heard or read Iggy was also influenced by Coltrane his 'A Love Supreme' You have to hear that one...

Yeh, pharaoh sanders is really cool, gunna check out that egypt one defintely!


Ravi's cool, its not really like we will fall at all though, stil tremendous, just takes you somewhere else u'no

Hi Nadja,

I've just had another listen to Upper Egypt and Lower Egypt (on Tauhid LP) and I can't hear anything like Little Doll. It is a sprawling 16 minute track that changes thoughout though, so maybe you'll hear it, let me know! (it is a good album, probably Pharoah's best). I mean I've heard people say they can hear bits of Beethoven in Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music - all I can hear is total white noise distortion.

If you want to try some Jazz, as a Stooges fan I'd heavily recommend Bitches Brew by Miles Davis and Alice Coltrane's Journey in Satchidananda. Both are awesome.

thanks mc, but I guess I have Paul T to blame on this one. I've gone back to check one of the older threads - 'Funhouse Recording Type' - and there he says that the Little Doll' riff - and I quote - 'is a straight lift' from Upper Egypt Lower Egypt'
anyway, I really wanna hear some Pharoah now!

Nadja wrote:

what do you think of Ravi Shankar hsjw? I'm Indian myself but i've never sat down to listen to any of his stuff - in spite of his influence on Ron Asheton's guitar-playing!!!!

he had a good set at woodstock.

Listen to some Sandy Nelson side-the b-side of 'Topsy' ("Quite A Beat", IIRC) sound so much like 'Little Doll' that the only difference is the tempo....

lcb wrote:

Listen to some Sandy Nelson side-the b-side of 'Topsy' ("Quite A Beat", IIRC) sound so much like 'Little Doll' that the only difference is the tempo....

no kidding?! so it's really Sandy Nelson I have to listen to then

mc wrote:

Hi Nadja,

I've just had another listen to Upper Egypt and Lower Egypt (on Tauhid LP) and I can't hear anything like Little Doll. It is a sprawling 16 minute track that changes thoughout though, so maybe you'll hear it, let me know! (it is a good album, probably Pharoah's best). I Both are awesome.

mc, I know it's a few months down the line but I've only just heard 'Upper Egypt Lower Egypt' in its entirety, and yes there is a moment which definitely sounds like the bass riff off 'Little Doll'!! it occurs almost in the middle, just the bass on its own, just before the piano comes in, I forgot to take a note of precisely when.. but it happens! It only lasts a few seconds so it's pretty easy to miss! but if you listen out for it you'll hear it!
thanks for the earlier jazz recommendations btw - I'm broadening my horizons!!

I'll have another listen some time, I'm sure you're right - it's one of those great tracks that you hear different things in every time!

So what did you make of Bitches Brew or Journey in Satchinanda?

The riff to "Little Doll" is a 2 chord slide in two positions. Its probably the easiest riff to play after "Louie Louie" so you will hear it on many garage punk songs.
I can confirm that you can hear it played almost identically in "Upper Egypt" and its very likely this is where Ron copped the riff, as he is a big fan of this period of Jazz. He once mentioned that his favourite record is "Cosmic Music" whic has tracks on it by both Alice and John Coltrane, and is very worth seeking out for the classic "Reverend King". For those interested in this music I would recommend the following.
1. Spiritual Unity - Albert Ayler (the defining root of free jazz)
2. Machine Gun - Peter Brotzmann ( the most extreme and LA Blues like music)
3. Meditations - John Coltrane - this is the spiritual forerunner of Funhouse in my opinion
4. Sturgis Armoury Bootleg - THe MC5 - they play Upper Egypt, maybe where the Stooges heard it first.
5. Black Unity - Pharoah Saunders - amazing free playing on this one.

to both mc and Nadja: Yes, the 'Little Doll' riff in Sanders' classic starts at 9:00, then you can hear it clearer at 9:10 and it fades away at 9:22, when piano comes in -> check it out

Cheers JW!

mc wrote:

I'll have another listen some time, I'm sure you're right - it's one of those great tracks that you hear different things in every time!

So what did you make of Bitches Brew or Journey in Satchinanda?

Like them both! but have only listened about once so far...also listened to 'In a silent way,' bits and pieces of other Alice Coltrane stuff (still to listen to John C!!) Interesting how Alice Coltrane uses a harp...
Sanders is just terriific! no wonder the Stooges dug him, and probably still do of course
and thanks JW82!

ZinZin wrote:

For so far I heard or read Iggy was also influenced by Coltrane his 'A Love Supreme' You have to hear that one...

just got A Love Supreme, and other than needing to get back into jazz to appreciate this, i dunno how its one of iggys favourite albums (along with bringing it all back home by dylan and 12X5 by the stones)

just doesnt seem like it would be, any opinions on the album, ro which other coltrane i should get?

also whats stooge opinion on bitches brew, it was recorded around 1970 as well wasnt it - funhouse inspired, or inspired by funhouse even....maybe a stretch, lol

I've never really been able to get into John Coltrane's stuff (I'd have to say Crescent is my favorite by him) but I really love Alice's stuff - it's a bit more cosmic and earthy.. if that makes any sense.

yeh, ive heard the name alice coltrane thrown about alot, esp on the board, so i think i'll have a go at her, see whats up


thanks,
HJW