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 We will Fall

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PostSubject: We will Fall   We will Fall Icon_minitimeMon Feb 25, 2008 9:28 pm

This song sound like a strange bird between the other songs on the first Stooges album. Trippy!
a bit like The Velvet Underground and Nico sound. I wonder if they already met each other in that period..

Anybody can tell more about the background info of this song, like on what was it inspired, who wrote it, was it a Dave Alexander thing?
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PostSubject: Re: We will Fall   We will Fall Icon_minitimeMon Feb 25, 2008 9:42 pm

Dave Alexander thing
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PostSubject: Re: We will Fall   We will Fall Icon_minitimeMon Feb 25, 2008 9:45 pm

ok thanks JLTS!
hmm...explains a bit more
already thought so
do you maybe know if Iggy and Nico knew eachother by that time?
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PostSubject: Re: We will Fall   We will Fall Icon_minitimeMon Feb 25, 2008 9:49 pm

yeah, they knew eachother summer of 69, when that odd evenng of light video featering the 2 was promolized
cheers
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PostSubject: Re: We will Fall   We will Fall Icon_minitimeMon Feb 25, 2008 9:55 pm

ok!
That strange video made in the fields with the burnin crucifix..yeah
there were A LOT of trippy influences workin..

The mix of influences on the first Stooges album is great!
from that time also comes the I AM YOU phrase probably
Iggy still uses it i think Really dig that
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eusebioneto




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PostSubject: Re: We will Fall   We will Fall Icon_minitimeTue Feb 26, 2008 12:58 am

John Cale Plays viola on this track.

It is about Iggy doing some drug (don't know what drug) and waiting for Nico on the Chelsea Hotel, NYC, on Room 121 (I think it is in 1969, almost sure).

And the Indian influences are because of Dave Alexander, who liked that Indian thing.
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PostSubject: Re: We will Fall   We will Fall Icon_minitimeTue Feb 26, 2008 1:02 am

And the video you're talking is Nico's song "Evening of Light", was made by a man who wanted to film Nico (don't remember his name) and Nico was going with Iggy to Ann Arbor, and he had to go with them to make the movie.
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homesickjameswilliamson
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PostSubject: Re: We will Fall   We will Fall Icon_minitimeTue Feb 26, 2008 1:02 am

When did he start using ''i am you"? i love when he does that, is there any recordings of him saying it in the early days?

also We Will Fall is total dave, its an eastern influence thing, like african/indian inspired im sure, ravi shankar stuff, well not shankar he sounds nothin like that, but iggy says dave was always into that kinda thing, reading abotu all of it n all, apparently when they were recording the album, i think it was something like dave wanted to do a chant thing, and they were all high on hash at the time and they did a sit in protest against john cale and whomever to allow them to do it, and they did, then cale salvaged it with the violin at the end, its a cool song, well not repeated listens but its pretty great every so often, moody
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PostSubject: Re: We will Fall   We will Fall Icon_minitimeTue Feb 26, 2008 12:53 pm

Altho it's often said We Will Fall was concocted in the studio, the Stooges arrived with it, it had been cobbled together before the session, based on Dave's ideas. Some of the feel might have been influenced by the velvets, or of course John Cale. Incidentally, Iggy saw the Velvets at one of their first outings outside NYC, when nico drove andy Warhol, Gerard Malanga and Exploding Plastic Inevtiable to ann Arbor in a VW campervan, for the film festival in March 1966.

The chant came from Swami Ramdas, whom Dave had been turned onto by Jimmy Silver, the band's manager.

iggy and Nico met each other in November 68. The Evening Of Light video by Francois de Menil was filmed that winter, hence the snow on the ground.
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PostSubject: Re: We will Fall   We will Fall Icon_minitimeTue Feb 26, 2008 3:55 pm

Guys, thanks a lot!!
And Paul especially for the detailed and precise information!!
So We Will Fall was more a Dave thing..ok.

As understanding; The Stooges had undergo quite some influences in those days exept from hash also from Cale and The Velvets. Dave's interest was additional to it. And there were also Jimmy Silver and John Sinclair ideas, macrobiotic stuff, their specific view on music, the MC5....
The Stooges were still a bit provincial youngsters in those days right? would say with these people around... strange if those influences and 'spiritual' ideas didn't formed a part of the Stooges their basis. If so, I'm curious if such influences got in their music further on in time...and nowadays. Can't hear it in The Weirdness altho...
Anybody an opinion on this?

It's definitely there in the I Am You thing of Iggy. Don't know HJW when that started. want to know that too.
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PostSubject: Re: We will Fall   We will Fall Icon_minitimeWed Feb 27, 2008 3:15 am

I think We Will Fall is the worst of all Stooges tracks. I NEVER play it. EVER.
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PostSubject: Re: We will Fall   We will Fall Icon_minitimeWed Feb 27, 2008 5:19 am

I have to agree, but being from the Stooges, even their worst track is good!

Sorry for the poor english.
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PostSubject: Re: We will Fall   We will Fall Icon_minitimeWed Feb 27, 2008 5:25 am

mg196 wrote:
I think We Will Fall is the worst of all Stooges tracks. I NEVER play it. EVER.

To be honest, I agree.
It's very long, and I reckon they faded out other tracks on the album to compensate.
Shame cus the last 4 tracks are faded out just as Ron gets going.
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PostSubject: Re: We will Fall   We will Fall Icon_minitimeWed Feb 27, 2008 5:32 am

sheddy wrote:

Shame cus the last 4 tracks are faded out just as Ron gets going.

yeh ano, thank god for those extended ones on the 2CD Rhino Remaster, i wonder what other chant or song the stooges couldve put on there, some of that early stuff like i'm sick etc
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PostSubject: Re: We will Fall   We will Fall Icon_minitimeWed Feb 27, 2008 11:06 am

ZinZin wrote:
This song sound like a strange bird between the other songs on the first Stooges album. Trippy!
a bit like The Velvet Underground and Nico sound. I wonder if they already met each other in that period..

Anybody can tell more about the background info of this song, like on what was it inspired, who wrote it, was it a Dave Alexander thing?

I referred to their 'trippy' stuff in a recent post Smile
Obviously your question has been well answered ZinZin, but I'd just like to air a few thoughts
the whole 'Eastern' thing (and more specifically Indian, the music and philosophy and all) was a big part of the hippy era of course, and the Beatles went out to India and met that Maharishi Yogi guy and stuff, as to 'We Will Fall', the chant anyway, Ron certainly makes it out like it was Dave Alexander's very specific 'contribution', far as I can gather Dave got into mysticism and spiritualism and stuff in a big way, but not any of the others. It's frustrating not to be able to get any direct info from him, you always have to rely on other people's remembrances where he's concerned (and there's not many of those).
Still... if he was meant to be so 'spiritualistic' and all, maybe I could try a seance - ha, ha.
But, seriously, I wonder how far drugs and mysticism were related, in his case? (or more generally if it comes to that?)
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PostSubject: Re: We will Fall   We will Fall Icon_minitimeWed Feb 27, 2008 3:07 pm

mg196 wrote:
I think We Will Fall is the worst of all Stooges tracks. I NEVER play it. EVER.

hahaha wow Suspect never...

I like the Stooges slow dark stuff; all there is!
Iggy's voice on We Will Fall is great!

If it all would'ave been Rock ('n' Roll) I would've been bored the death I guess

Nadja wrote:
But, seriously, I wonder how far drugs and mysticism were related, in his case? (or more generally if it comes to that?)

Nadja, it's my poor language on this..Can you say that question in other words? don't understand it well what yr askin...
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PostSubject: Re: We will Fall   We will Fall Icon_minitimeWed Feb 27, 2008 9:42 pm

well, I'm not sure how to re-phrase it ... I was just wondering, well obviously Dave and the rest all took drugs and stuff, and mysticism, you know, is not all that different, and, far as I know, if you're 'mystic' you're interested in other-worldly type stuff, reaching a higher plane, etc, and that's what a lot of people take drugs for too, to get a high, feel different, escape from this world and all. So in Dave's case did the drugs fuel his mysticism or did his mystical interests fuel his drug-taking? likely it was a bit of both, but I was wondering which really came first? (don't know if I've made any more sense)
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PostSubject: Re: We will Fall   We will Fall Icon_minitimeWed Feb 27, 2008 10:31 pm

aya thnx! understand what yr saying.ok...a thought on it:
In general if you dig drugs you don't necessarily dig 'mysticsm'...much to complicated stuff..nice for a short while to experiment with... but when you really get into it..can be nasty as hell.. not a thing you stick with for a longer time if you don't really want to. so think it takes some severe interest and effort to make a song about..

The other way around; starting with what you call mysticism than drugs was almost obvious next in those days. Dave seemed to me more that kind of type, lethargic. specific drugs helps a bit to soften things up...like alcohol prob. also did with him.

What I'm questioning is that the Stooges (iggy most) were making music and acting against all that hippie and peace stuff happening in those days. Dave seemed to me sort of a hippie..is that maybe also why Dave and Iggy never really matched Question
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PostSubject: Re: We will Fall   We will Fall Icon_minitimeWed Feb 27, 2008 11:50 pm

don't know how far the Stooges were actually anti-hippy, although of course they didn't really seem to embrace most of the hippy stuff! ron does say somewhere 'we were on the same side as the hippies' but I don't know exactly what he meant. Anyway, about Dave and Iggy - there certainly were some differences there, maybe just a clash of temperament more than anything else. of course I can only speculate, but Dave certainly seems to have had more off-the-wall interests than the others, I mean the 'mysticism' seems to have been pretty deep-seated with him, and the 'spiritualism', the whole European/American movement of that name (connected with the East, of course, but also the occult traditions of the West) and he was apparently always reading up about that kinda stuff, and he was so quiet and all. Anyway I've rambled on again but he always fascinates me
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PostSubject: Re: We will Fall   We will Fall Icon_minitimeWed Feb 27, 2008 11:59 pm

'We Will Fall' is an unusual piece, but still I think why the hell they decided to fill an album with such 10 minutes?! Last time I listened to it I wondered if this ever gonna finish lol Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: We will Fall   We will Fall Icon_minitimeThu Feb 28, 2008 1:11 am

JamesWilliamson82 wrote:
but still I think why the hell they decided to fill an album with such 10 minutes?!

Have to ask them!

we're only guessing and thinking
is nice though..

Think they were into it! as said; especially Dave, Ig/Scotty and Ron dig d it enough to let it be a serious thing + the influence of al the people around we mentioned in the posts above. Explains enough...

See it as a side of the Stooges; experimenting on stuff
And for godsake w have to appreciate that attitude!!!

I don't like this song so extremely much but DO really appreciate the MOVE.
Man...they're enough 1 dimensional bands on this sphere already!!

Nadja wrote:
a clash of temperament

Clash of temperament that's for sure.
Nadja, like it cheers you're so into Dave.


Last edited by ZinZin on Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: We will Fall   We will Fall Icon_minitimeThu Feb 28, 2008 1:34 pm

JamesWilliamson82 wrote:
'We Will Fall' is an unusual piece, but still I think why the hell they decided to fill an album with such 10 minutes?! Last time I listened to it I wondered if this ever gonna finish lol Very Happy

well far as I know they were just trying to fill up the album, because they didn't have enough songs, they had to write a few songs at the last minute too, that's how Ron always tells it anyway.

Or maybe they just got carried away, I don't know. I think Ron did say something like that once he started the chanting it was hard to stop, it really did make him high (haha)

like the avatar too JamesWilliamson 82! where'd ya get it?
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JW82
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PostSubject: Re: We will Fall   We will Fall Icon_minitimeThu Feb 28, 2008 4:53 pm

I got the avatar by accident surfing through photobucket.com Smile I was looking if they got any Stooges photos and came across that one! Yeah, I like it very much too Very Happy
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homesickjameswilliamson
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PostSubject: Re: We will Fall   We will Fall Icon_minitimeThu Feb 28, 2008 5:18 pm

its from the mick rock/raw power sessions when they were recording in london in 72, its in the Raw Power book, its great, loads of great photos
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PostSubject: Re: We will Fall   We will Fall Icon_minitimeThu Feb 28, 2008 7:05 pm

homesickjameswilliamson wrote:
its from the mick rock/raw power sessions when they were recording in london in 72, its in the Raw Power book, its great, loads of great photos

Oh, I didn't know that Smile Thanks for the info!
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