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Nadja

Nadja


Number of posts : 2617
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PostSubject: debut album 2-disc edition   debut album 2-disc edition Icon_minitimeFri Feb 20, 2009 11:34 pm

I've praised John Cale on here in the past for his work on the Stooges debut but now I've finally (yes FINALLY Laughing ) got myself a brand new copy of the deluxe edition and have had time to listen to his original mixes and stuff, whereas I'd only occasionally downloaded them before and never really listened properly.

Was this guy the world's worst mixer?

I love Scotty's drumming of course but to make it sound about five times as loud as Ron's guitar - which I thought was the most powerful sound in the universe - as Cale does on some tracks, what the f*ck was he on? I'm surprised he didn't make that goddam piano sound louder than Ron! And fading out 'Little Doll' BEFORE it gets to those incredible wahs and practically squashing the solo guitar and drums together in the one channel (to the detriment of both) on those other versions of 'not right' and 'real cool time'

'Dog' with the alternate vocals sounds great tho, and of course there are the extended versions of 'Ann' and 'No Fun' (altho what I would like even better would be an extended version of 'Little Doll'! Very Happy ) I guess I'll stick to the first disc after all, or just my previous much-used copy (but that's getting old now and I've literally worn it out!!)

OK I'm away out now otherwise I'll be raging at Cale all night Laughing


Last edited by Nadja on Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:17 pm; edited 5 times in total
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Loose1969
Free & Freaky
Loose1969


Number of posts : 1565
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PostSubject: Re: debut album 2-disc edition   debut album 2-disc edition Icon_minitimeFri Feb 20, 2009 11:47 pm

Laughing

Yeah, his "vision" on the original mixed was pretty awful.
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http://www.myspace.com/crazyheartedlover
G, F#, E
Real O Mind
G, F#, E


Number of posts : 2307
Age : 29
Location : Scotland
Registration date : 2008-05-06

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PostSubject: Re: debut album 2-disc edition   debut album 2-disc edition Icon_minitimeSat Feb 21, 2009 12:17 am

Well, I hate to say it (I don't actually, cause I'm a bit of an ass) but...

I TOLD YOU SO!

Laughing
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MJG196

MJG196


Number of posts : 719
Location : Burke, VA
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PostSubject: Re: debut album 2-disc edition   debut album 2-disc edition Icon_minitimeSat Feb 21, 2009 3:07 am

I think the Stooges may have been hist first BIG job. Patti Smith's Horses and many of Nico's LPs are mixed phenomenally.
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Nadja

Nadja


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PostSubject: Re: debut album 2-disc edition   debut album 2-disc edition Icon_minitimeSat Feb 21, 2009 11:04 am

mg196 wrote:
I think the Stooges may have been hist first BIG job. Patti Smith's Horses and many of Nico's LPs are mixed phenomenally.

maybe, but it still makes me mad Laughing
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nick




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PostSubject: Re: debut album 2-disc edition   debut album 2-disc edition Icon_minitimeSat Feb 21, 2009 1:13 pm

he's not a technician. he's just come from the velvets, where the music isn't even mixed, it's just recorded all at once in a room.
i think his real contributions would have been musical, while recording. Think single note piano and humming viola.
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sheddy

sheddy


Number of posts : 150
Age : 47
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PostSubject: Re: debut album 2-disc edition   debut album 2-disc edition Icon_minitimeSat Feb 21, 2009 1:39 pm

He obviously heard it differently to the Stooges, but I'm so happy that second CD was released.
The full version of Ann is awesome.
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Nadja

Nadja


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PostSubject: Re: debut album 2-disc edition   debut album 2-disc edition Icon_minitimeSat Feb 21, 2009 2:12 pm

OK I guess my first reaction was a little extreme...it's just I was so taken aback...but all I can say now is, well just thank god that Cale's weren't the only mixes of those tracks
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sheddy

sheddy


Number of posts : 150
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PostSubject: Re: debut album 2-disc edition   debut album 2-disc edition Icon_minitimeSat Feb 21, 2009 2:23 pm

Nadja wrote:
all I can say now is, well just thank god that Cale's weren't the only mixes of those tracks

Not gonna argue with that...
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TED
A funhouse boy will steal your heart away
TED


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PostSubject: Re: debut album 2-disc edition   debut album 2-disc edition Icon_minitimeSat Feb 21, 2009 3:09 pm

You can never have too many Stooge mixes.
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Nadja

Nadja


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PostSubject: Re: debut album 2-disc edition   debut album 2-disc edition Icon_minitimeSat Feb 21, 2009 4:47 pm

TED wrote:
You can never have too many Stooge mixes.

they've got to be done right though

which means, Ron Asheton's rhythm guitar should NEVER be made to sound almost tinny the way that it sometimes does on this disc, and almost subordinate to the handclaps in the same channel (who did those anyway??) An equally unforgivable sin is how the solo guitar on 'real cool time' is almost drowned out by the drums at times. and then bizarrely, on the following track, the extended 'Ann', the drumming is almost anonymous. And of course it's brilliant to have this extended version of 'Ann' but the first part doesn't have the same incredibly spooky quality as the other. And then while the extended 'No Fun' is even better, the vocals aren't as good as on the final version...ok now I'm finding fault just for the sake of it Laughing

of course y're right really, we can never have too much Stooges! it's just I don't like Ron's guitar to be screwed around with. (At least the bass doesn't seem to have been fucked around much tho!)

and to think they felt the need, on this 2-disc edition, to have an endorsement from Alice Cooper of 'Dog', 'No Fun' and '1969' as 'modern classics' on the front cover!


Last edited by Nadja on Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:25 pm; edited 2 times in total
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mc

mc


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PostSubject: Re: debut album 2-disc edition   debut album 2-disc edition Icon_minitimeSat Feb 21, 2009 4:48 pm

TED wrote:
You can never have too many Stooge mixes.

Except for those shitty echo mixes on the Raw Stooges Vol.1
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citizensmurf




Number of posts : 39
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PostSubject: Re: debut album 2-disc edition   debut album 2-disc edition Icon_minitimeSat Feb 21, 2009 6:52 pm

mc wrote:
TED wrote:
You can never have too many Stooge mixes.

Except for those shitty echo mixes on the Raw Stooges Vol.1

I have the 'Complete Raw Mixes' and they all seem to be fan-made 'Out of Phase' jobbies. Does anyone know the history of these mixes?
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Nadja

Nadja


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PostSubject: Re: debut album 2-disc edition   debut album 2-disc edition Icon_minitimeSat Feb 21, 2009 11:16 pm

well I suppose it's interesting to have different mixes, helps to broaden my Stooges experience or something
just to repeat myself tho, it really is ludicrous that on that first mix of '1969' you can't really hear anything clearly except the drums and handclaps - the percussion I should call it. at least on the extended 'No Fun' the rhythm guitar has been mercifully placed on the other side to those handclaps. and the solo on this really does end up sounding like a plane coming in to land or something, and it makes me remember what Ron said, that he liked to get that kind of effect cuz he liked planes
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Shakes

Shakes


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PostSubject: Re: debut album 2-disc edition   debut album 2-disc edition Icon_minitimeSat Feb 21, 2009 11:37 pm

i thought it was pretty bad ass to see ol' alice's "endorsement" on the stooges deluxe edition.
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Nadja

Nadja


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PostSubject: Re: debut album 2-disc edition   debut album 2-disc edition Icon_minitimeSun Feb 22, 2009 1:18 pm

Shakes wrote:
i thought it was pretty bad ass to see ol' alice's "endorsement" on the stooges deluxe edition.

just seems kinda ironic or something
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neven




Number of posts : 535
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PostSubject: Re: debut album 2-disc edition   debut album 2-disc edition Icon_minitimeSun Feb 22, 2009 8:30 pm

TED wrote:
You can never have too many Stooge mixes.

true,i know threre are more mixes with small differences to the ones on disc 2.Bill ingelot told me this .
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Nadja

Nadja


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PostSubject: Re: debut album 2-disc edition   debut album 2-disc edition Icon_minitimeSun Mar 15, 2009 10:14 pm

neven wrote:
TED wrote:
You can never have too many Stooge mixes.

true,i know threre are more mixes with small differences to the ones on disc 2.Bill ingelot told me this .

any more info on these neven?
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PostSubject: Re: debut album 2-disc edition   debut album 2-disc edition Icon_minitimeTue Mar 17, 2009 1:35 am

Hey Nadja,
The John Cale mixes sound fantastic when you're stoned =)
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Nadja

Nadja


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PostSubject: Re: debut album 2-disc edition   debut album 2-disc edition Icon_minitimeTue Mar 17, 2009 11:37 am

haha, thanks for the tip OUTBURST
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PostSubject: Re: debut album 2-disc edition   debut album 2-disc edition Icon_minitimeWed Mar 18, 2009 11:48 pm

you're welcome my dear Smile

What I wanted to say: I believe John Cale was perhaps "under the influence" when mixing the songs
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neven




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PostSubject: Re: debut album 2-disc edition   debut album 2-disc edition Icon_minitimeThu Mar 19, 2009 12:16 am

Nadja wrote:
neven wrote:
TED wrote:
You can never have too many Stooge mixes.

true,i know threre are more mixes with small differences to the ones on disc 2.Bill ingelot told me this .

any more info on these neven?

i asked Bill if there were more outtakes or different mixes and he told me there were more mixes with small differences.that's all i know.
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mark




Number of posts : 221
Location : Beatin' my brains with Luther Vandross
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PostSubject: Re: debut album 2-disc edition   debut album 2-disc edition Icon_minitimeThu Mar 19, 2009 12:26 am

I actually like the Cale mixes. Of course they don't have the same heavy guitar crunch as the finished album, but for me that isn't entirely the key to the early Stooges. They had that rickety, unbalanced, swirling psychedelic side to them as well, and I think Cale's 'arty' mixes capture that. They're not better than the official mixes, but they're just as valid IMO.

Incidentally, has anyone noticed that the Cale mixes on the 2CD edition run slightly slow as compared to the album versions of the same tracks? Presumably it's because they're from an old cassette, but you'd think Rhino could have fixed something like that.
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Nadja

Nadja


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PostSubject: Re: debut album 2-disc edition   debut album 2-disc edition Icon_minitimeThu Mar 19, 2009 7:11 pm

OUTBURST wrote:
you're welcome my dear Smile

What I wanted to say: I believe John Cale was perhaps "under the influence" when mixing the songs

oh is THAT what you meant Laughing
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Nadja

Nadja


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PostSubject: Re: debut album 2-disc edition   debut album 2-disc edition Icon_minitimeThu Mar 19, 2009 7:19 pm

mark wrote:
I actually like the Cale mixes. Of course they don't have the same heavy guitar crunch as the finished album, but for me that isn't entirely the key to the early Stooges. They had that rickety, unbalanced, swirling psychedelic side to them as well, and I think Cale's 'arty' mixes capture that. They're not better than the official mixes, but they're just as valid IMO.

Incidentally, has anyone noticed that the Cale mixes on the 2CD edition run slightly slow as compared to the album versions of the same tracks? Presumably it's because they're from an old cassette, but you'd think Rhino could have fixed something like that.

I'm getting more used to the Cale mixes, had another listen thru the other night. I'm not sure in what sense they're 'arty', but they are okay, and if I want to listen to Ron's guitar in all its unparalleled glory then I can just go back to the 'main' mixes of course. Never noticed them running slow - will listen again. also it's good to get extra bits on the solos on many of the tracks (not just the extended 'ann' and 'no fun')
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