the true raw power of the stooges unleashed after 30 years

Hey, i have Raw Power '97 on CD and i love it, and people have always bitched about this ''Bowie Mix''. I desperately wanted to hear it - found out after the Iggy Mix was released, Columbia deleted the Bowie Mix in favour.

I downloaded it, and, if you havent heard it - you're not missin much. Drums sound awful, bass; granted you still cant hear it, guitar really lame and weak and watered down, there's even some gimpy Bowie glammy stuff on there.

It's really bad - and i just, because of the lack of topics up - wanted to ask if people have heard it, what do they think about it....

i like it more than iggy's mix. more raw

In remixing Raw Power Iggy’s intention was to create a record that could beat the crap out of 1990s rock. It does that for sure, but is it really the best version of Raw Power? I don't believe it is.

I think that the new mix lacks the subtlety of the Bowie mix. The November 1972 mix created by Bowie and Iggy in Hollywood at least had shades of light and dark, and all those strange fluctuations in both the mix and the volume of some instruments are actually very effective. I also love the very slight delay effect on the drums on "Penetration". The mix is very trebly and the bass and drums are woefully under-represented but it's challenging, undeniably exciting and a real buzz to listen to.

The new mix is completely in your face the whole time. That’s not to say I don’t like it, because I do, but it is so relentlessly LOUD that it becomes something of an exhausting process to listen to the whole album. So I don't play it as often as I might want to. The original version, however, doesn’t have that effect on me.

Of course the new mix has better balance of the instruments, the vocals and Williamson's guitars are better integrated into the sound and there's lots more little background touches that are clearer (the celeste on "Penetration" for example). But I wish Iggy had created a new mix that sounded clearer and more punchy, but based more closely on the version of Raw Power that we'd all been used to for 25 years. In many ways the original rough mixes created by the Stooges in the studio which feature on the semi bootlegs like Rough Power are the best, despite the ropey sound quality. If Iggy had remixed the album to sound like these original mixes I'd have been delighted.

It's a shame that space couldn't have been made for both versions. The album is short enough to fit both mixes onto one CD.

Interestingly, after years of slagging off the Bowie mix, in 1998 Ron Asheton admitted that compared with the new Raw Power he preferred the old Bowie version!

Cheers,

Richard

The Iggy mix is an interesting experiment, but it has no dynamics.

The Bowie mix as a lot of it, but the available CDs all sucks. If you downloaded it on mp3, you can't really judge the mix, it's like judging a van gogh painting based on a stamp reproduction.

You should get any version on vinyl preferably the 1977 holland reissue pressing.

Dynamic range is the range between the sound the quieter and the sound the louder on the track. If everything is smashed so that the quiet is as loud as the loud, there ain't no loud anymore. There can be no loud if there is no quiet.

I have to say that I prefer the Iggy. I'v listened to some vinyl in sthlm, the orginal. But the Iggy mix is unlike anything out there, it's unique and full on -all time. Just as the other 2 stoogesalbums, it sounds brilliant and unique -at the same time!

This is an fascinating subject. Dynamic range on CDs has certainly been lessening over the past few years as the music business has decided that we all need to hear music louder. Never mind that we could simply turn up the volume on our music players if we wanted, the CDs themselves are being mastered louder and louder, with little regard for dynamics and overall sonic fidelity.

This means that the everything comes out at pretty much one volume. This where for me the old Bowie mix of Raw Power wins out over the full blast Iggy remix, as it retains the actual louds and softs played by the band. It's realistic and more natural to listen to. The Iggy version is apparently one of the most consistently loud cds ever produced according to the Guardian newspaper.

Here's a couple of links to interesting articles (one of which is the Guardian article) which explain the situation much better than I can -

http://mixonline.com/mag/audio_big_squeeze/

http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,1992325,00.html

http://www.stylusmagazine.com/articles/weekly_article/imperfect-sound-forever.htm

Cheers,

Richard

I've tried to find the original Bowie mix on CD, no luck. The remix is so far into the red that it sounds like your speakers are blown.
I would have preferred a mix somewhat akin to Fun House.

And I want a million dollars too....

I picked up a copy of the original Bowie mix on CD via Amazon just a few years ago. I've quickly looked on there now and they have a couple of what seem to be the old version on sale via some of the affiliated shops.
You should be ok with any CD manufactured before 1996 (IF the dates quoted are correct...), or if the disc is on Columbia / CBS. But seeing as the new mix is on Columbia / Sony and record labels aren't always correctly listed on online sites, you have to be careful...
Good luck.
Cheers,
Richard

i found my copy in an old small record shop, on a street corner downtown, about 4 years ago

Jusat checked Ebay, no dice yet. Shit.

Loose1969 wrote:

Jusat checked Ebay, no dice yet. Shit.

The Bowie mix turns up on ebay quite regularly. It's inexpensive. Just give it a few weeks.

JESUS_LOVES_THE_STOOGES wrote:

i found my copy in an old small record shop, on a street corner downtown, about 4 years ago

I find that hard to believe seeing as you would have been around 10.

The best way to hear 'Raw Power' is on the vinyl...if you get your hands on an original pressing, you're in for a treat.

The new pressing of the album is great too.

Also, 'Raw Power' has bass...you just have to turn up the volume to hear it!

heavy liquid wrote:

JESUS_LOVES_THE_STOOGES wrote:

i found my copy in an old small record shop, on a street corner downtown, about 4 years ago

I find that hard to believe seeing as you would have been around 10.

11. and i first saw iggy when i was 8(detroit state theatre 01)

adams66 wrote:

In remixing Raw Power Iggy’s intention was to create a record that could beat the crap out of 1990s rock. It does that for sure, but is it really the best version of Raw Power? I don't believe it is.

Nor do I. The best one has not been mixed yet.

IIRC, in Paul Trynka's book, he mentions that the rhythm section was recorded on one track. Iggy's mix buries them even further than the original LP.