What if Iggy had never fired Dave Alexander?

I was thinking of this yesterday and was wondering if anyone else thought that this event contributed to the band's decline. I know Iggy kicked Dave out the Goose Lake festival, where he couldn't cope with the huge crowd and couldn't play. But let's say Iggy gave him a second chance or Dave hadn't had his meltdown. What would've happened with an Iggy-Asheton-Asheton-Williamson-Alexander Stooges line-up? Would it have lasted longer, cranked out even better songs? At the very least it would have spared the band the revolving bassist line-up with Cheatham, Zettner and Recca coming and going (though Recca from what i understand was pretty good).

In fact I also thought about the same thing you mentioned some time ago..but not as much and clear as you did Yeah, for sure the songs on the next album would have 'Williamson' in credits for the songs If they had recorded an album..this would have been 1971 for sure...depending also on how they would have developed their drug addictions...I also wonder what if the album had sounded as a mix of Funhouse and Raw Power..it would have been better than Raw Power itself...(who claim it to be Stooges' best album)

obviously they started chopping and changing on bass once Alexander left, but an even bigger 'what if' is what if the hard drugs hadn't kicked in destroying the band's stability...
Also, and this is crucial too...I can never remember just when Ron Asheton started pushing for a second guitarist? it was really this wish that led to Williamson coming in, and of course once he came in you got that new style, new songwriting ideas (with or without Alexander)
an album like a mixture of Funhouse and Raw power? my brain hurts trying to imagine it!!!!!!!!! they're radically different albums.

and just to speculate once more about Alexander (gawd knows I'm always obsessing about him) what would he have done with his life if he'd managed to survive? would he have stayed in music at all...would he have been involved with the reunion now ??????????

Ron fucked himself, inviting James to the band.

But if Dave had still been there, maybe Ron's plan woulda worked. Sad that we'll never know...

I dunno...this type of discussion always seems silly to me. With Alexander, things likely would have gotten much worse, much faster. Plus, there'd be no Raw Power! Well, at least not as we know it, now.

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I dunno...this type of discussion always seems silly to me. With Alexander, things likely would have gotten much worse, much faster. Plus, there'd be no Raw Power! Well, at least not as we know it, now.

i agree, theres no knowing what would have happened, i like what happened, not what specifically happened to ppl such as iggy goin insane, every1 and smack, james and hepatitis, zanders death etc but i mean in terms of histroy, i like the way it came about, amean if theyd continued we wouldnt have iggys solo career, kill city etc etc, and their reputation may even have been tarnished by trying to continue and maybe not being as creative, etc, u just dont know

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Ron fucked himself, inviting James to the band.

dont agree with this loose, i love raw power, and its a very important part of the stooges, and i think the 1971 one when james came into the stooges is also brilliant (i'd fuckin love a lost-in-the-vaults masterpiece of properly recorded 1971 stuff!!!) but i think james added something, and was a natural progression in the sound etc

mg196 wrote:

I dunno...this type of discussion always seems silly to me.

don't join it then

James came up with great stuff, but sooo different... I don't see any natural progression from Funhouse to Raw Power at all. Raw Power is (mostly) great but it'll always be VASTLY overshadowed by the first two albums, in my opinion.
Ron most definitely fucked things up for himself (if not for the band) by inviting James as he ended up being crowded out.

Nadja wrote:

mg196 wrote:

I dunno...this type of discussion always seems silly to me.

don't join it then

James came up with great stuff, but sooo different... I don't see any natural progression from Funhouse to Raw Power at all. Raw Power is (mostly) great but it'll always be VASTLY overshadowed by the first two albums, in my opinion.
Ron most definitely fucked things up for himself (if not for the band) by inviting James as he ended up being crowded out.

No disrespect to James and Raw Power, but I agree. The first two albums are much better to these ears. Thank Ron and Dave for that...

Ron made a mistake (with his own career) by inviting James into the band. Iggy realised James music had a different direction and took it, Iggy always jumps from one musician to another. A lot of people call that "trying new things", I call it being selfish. Cause although the variety in Iggy's discography is great, he could of treated his musicians a hell of a lot better.

Dave Alexander (if he had stayed) would have taken the band in a jazzier direction but all the band (minus Ron) all had to many addictions. It could never have lasted.

Possibly Iggy would be dead by now as he wouldn't have met Bowie, Ron would have gone on to do more music projects, Dave and Scott would both be dead after O.Ding on different substances and James would have a job somewhere (just not nearly as succesful as where he is now).

wonder if Dave really gave up playing music altogether when he left the band. In any case, he did seem to leave of his own accord. But he had a real talent, would've been nice if he could've stuck at it!

I've never heard of him joining (or starting) any other bands so the chances are he didn't. After his mates being horrible to him (I mean who is Iggy to judge someone on substance abuse?!) he probably became depressed and just sank into alchoholism. It's a real shame.

the thing about him leaving, I admit I used to mostly blame Iggy at Goose Lake for that, but when I came to read the Ashetons' account in 'Please kill Me' and also something Cheatham said in 'Open up and Bleed' I think, 'he was removing himself from the band', kind of gave me the impression that he really was dropping out by that time anyway, and if that really was the case, of course I don't know if it was because he just couldn't hack it any longer, or if he just didn't want to hang around much anymore for some other reason, or what. As for the alcoholism, that started much earlier by all accounts. Taken all round, I think what happened at Goose Lake just became a good excuse for him to go. But there's just too much guesswork involved with him

if alexander was still in the band, probably williamson will never come into the band, and heroin and hard drugs never come too.

so they can recorded a followin to fun house, a "big time bum" album with title track, fresh rag, igot a right, toy soldier, egyptian woman, dog food, what you gonna do, ashma attack, i'm sick, good bye bozo

that'll be a very heavy psychedelic album, but sadly "if" then raw power 'll never came down

remark : alexander composed the most psychedelic riff/song : we'll fall,dirt,fun house ....
so if they'd kept him, the band 'll had been more cool-psyché oriented than hard rock oriented .

Big Time Bum wrote:

so they can recorded a followin to fun house, a "big time bum" album with title track, fresh rag, igot a right, toy soldier, egyptian woman, dog food, what you gonna do, ashma attack, i'm sick, good bye bozo

"Dog Food" wasn't written till Iggy's album "Soldier" although some of its lyrics could have been taken from another early Stooges song. "I'm Sick", "Asthma Attack" and "Goodbye Bozos" were all rough improvised songs made before the first Stooges album so there is little chance (if any) that they would appear on the album.

some informations on bewlaybrothers.com say that dog food was recorded before fun house, but don galluci refused to incorporate it into the album (he don't know how right he is)

waow really, yeh ive always ehard it was a song around that time, then again it may just have been the idea or even just the name, iggy said he used to walk around a lot just thinkin up names and the songs would go from there

Big Time Bum wrote:

remark : alexander composed the most psychedelic riff/song : we'll fall,dirt,fun house ....
so if they'd kept him, the band 'll had been more cool-psyché oriented than hard rock oriented .

yes, it really is interesting to consider what kind of stuff they might have produced if Dave had stayed...or perhaps if he'd had even more input...

on funhouse composition are well distributed ,each stooge bring idea:
-down on the street : from iggy, a tribal's inspiration, he describes it very well in i need more (the book); the same kind of composition that i've got a right, personnaly i think
-loose : from the famous ron's riff (1/3)
-tv eye : from the famous ron's riff (2/3)
-dirt : alexander inspired it
-1970 : from the famous same ron's riff (3/3)
-fun house : bass line from dave inspired the song, final mayhem is from mackay
-la blues : everyone, but mackay lead it in a very free-jazz way, like an angry coltrane

Big Time Bum wrote:

on funhouse composition are well distributed ,each stooge bring idea:
-down on the street : from iggy, a tribal's inspiration, he describes it very well in i need more (the book); the same kind of composition that i've got a right, personnaly i think
-loose : from the famous ron's riff (1/3)
-tv eye : from the famous ron's riff (2/3)
-dirt : alexander inspired it
-1970 : from the famous same ron's riff (3/3)
-fun house : bass line from dave inspired the song, final mayhem is from mackay
-la blues : everyone, but mackay lead it in a very free-jazz way, like an angry coltrane

they certainly all worked well together!

also, in your avatar, that's Scott Asheton on the right isn't it? Because some people on here seem to think it's somebody else!

its not scott, unless its a bad picture of him, i think its like billy cheatham or something, its one of the night od destruction CD covers, i htink its billy cheatham or jimmy recca or someone, not scott, possible dave, but i'd highyl doubt it

Its Zeke!

is it fuckin' Groundhog day here or what?