Revenge and Bomp releases... which ones are still needed?

About New York, Academy of Music 31-12-1973 tape:

On Night Of The Iguana cover (LP) song Rich Bitch is marked as Head On (wrong) and song Heavy Liquid is separated into two parts. The second part is marked as Rich Bitch (wrong). Source is the same, the difference in speed.

31-12-1973 New York, Academy of Music (Version 1)
Night Of The Iguana LP - correct tape speed
1 Raw Power
2 Rich Bitch (on the cover marked as Head On)
3 Wet My Bed
4 I Got Nothing
5 Cock In My pocket
6 Search And Destroy
7 Gimme Danger
8 Heavy Liquid (Part 1)
9 Heavy Liquid (Part 2) (on the cover marked as Rich Bitch)

31-12-1973 New York, Academy of Music (Version 2)
Double Danger CD - Runs slightly too fast
1 Raw Power
2 Rich Bitch
3 Wet My Bed
4 I Got Nothing
5 Cock In My pocket
6 Search And Destroy
7 Gimme Danger
8 Heavy Liquid

How about the version on the Pilot compilation 'Head On'? I don't have it but Per says here that it runs at the correct speed and Google says the tracklisting is this:

1	Raw Power
2	Head On
3	Wet My Bed
4	I Got Nothing
5	Cock In My Pocket
6	Search And Destroy
7	Gimme Danger
8	New Orleans
9	Rich Bitch

Is it just another needledrop of Night of the Iguana, with the same tracklisting errors?

mark wrote:

How about the version on the Pilot compilation 'Head On'? I don't have it but Per says here that it runs at the correct speed and Google says the tracklisting is this:

1	Raw Power
2	Head On
3	Wet My Bed
4	I Got Nothing
5	Cock In My Pocket
6	Search And Destroy
7	Gimme Danger
8	New Orleans
9	Rich Bitch

Is it just another needledrop of Night of the Iguana, with the same tracklisting errors?

Per's info is corect:

1) Raw Power (5:30)
2) Rich Bitch (9:10)
3) Wet My Bed (4:00)
4) I Got Nothin’ (4:20)
5) Cock In My Pocket (3:05)
6) Search And Destroy (3:40)
7) Gimme Danger (6:35)
Heavy Liquid (4:40)

On Night of the Iguana LP track 8 is 2:23 and track 9 is 2:29, but both tracks are Heavy Liquid (in the middle of the song is break). Track 2 (9:10) is Rich Bitch and song Head On does not exist on this tape.

Before I go on to the next part of my tape, I thought I'd try to correlate the tracks from the "February 20" part to Heavy Liquid and/or other releases. Hope this is of interest. I hope I haven't made any mistakes, but please let me know if I have.

Johanna 4:45
On Heavy Liquid Disc 4, Track 4

Rubber Legs 5:12
Not on Heavy Liquid. On Year Of The Iguana, Track 5, but with end faded.
On Revenge LP Death Trip, Track 3 without fade. Probably also without fade on Revenge Open Up And Bleed CD, but I don't have that.

Rubber Legs 5:34
I'm pretty sure that Heavy Liquid Disc 4, Track 1 and Track 7 are both this take, at slightly different speeds! Same applies to Bomp Open Up And Bleed CD, Tracks 1 and 12.

Till The End Of The Night 7:40
Not on Heavy Liquid, which has a different version. This version is on Wild Love and Till The End Of The Night

Open Up And Bleed 1:27 (take breaks down)
Unreleased

Open Up And Bleed 5:06 (breaks down)
On Heavy Liquid Disc 3, Track 11 and Disc 4, Track 5!

Open Up And Bleed (fast) 0:30 (breaks down)
Unreleased

Open Up And Bleed (fast) 3:14
Not on Heavy Liquid. On Till The End Of The Night, Track 3

She Creatures Of The Hollywood Hills 4:41
On Heavy Liquid, Disc 3, Track 15

Jesus Loves The Stooges 9:10 (various stops and starts)
First 2:50 has vocals on the tape. Remainder is instrumental. Part of instrumental on Heavy Liquid, Disc 3, Track 13. Vocal part is on original Sick Of You album, Track 8, together with added vocals dubbed on to some of the instrumental parts at an unknown later date.

Gimme Danger (slow) 3:10 (breaks down)
Unreleased.

Gimme Danger (slow) 4:20 (band start part way in)
Unreleased.

Gimme Danger (faster) 6:01
On Heavy Liquid, Disc 3, Track 6

That list is a truly glorious piece of work. If you could manage to do that for the full set of tapes it would be a fantastic resource. Maybe we should set up a Wikipedia page with all this info on it?

Go for it, that's a great idea.

Well, I've made a start here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Stooges_'Detroit_Rehearsal'_tapes

I just wanna say that these lists posted here...they are really impressive. Makes me wanna hear those old bootlegs again and I'm even considering buying some new. I don't know if they really are bootlegs tho...

I've never heard a definitive answer as to whether the Revenge stuff is legit or not. But it's the Stooges I grew up on so I love those CDs.

mc wrote:

I've never heard a definitive answer as to whether the Revenge stuff is legit or not. But it's the Stooges I grew up on so I love those CDs.

from what i could gather it was a legit label. the back of the 'my girl loves my heroin' cd mentions thanks to greg shaw, ron asheton, etc. and that the tapes belong to bomp with copyright, etc. i used to think they were unofficial as well, but later learned they were just another label.

http://www.discogs.com/label/Revenge+Records+(2)

mark wrote:

That list is a truly glorious piece of work. If you could manage to do that for the full set of tapes it would be a fantastic resource. Maybe we should set up a Wikipedia page with all this info on it?

Thanks for your comments. I'm currently going through the next bit, which I'll post here in due course, and which seems to correspond to the tape dated March 11 and 19. After that I think one more installment will probably cover everything I've got.

I do think a resource of some kind is a good idea, although I have some doubts as to whether Wikipedia is the place for it. Anyway I have a few (hopefully constructive!) comments about what you've done so far.

1. What's your source for the statement that these were made by by Williamson on his 2 track machine?

2. I'm not certain whether all the listed tapes actually circulate among collectors or not.

3. The second tape on the list from The Wild One is basically the stuff that came out on 'Rubber Legs' and appears in the book with the (common)assumption that this is from one separate studio session rather than, as appears to be the case, culled from the various rehearsal tapes.

4. The 3.14 take of Open Up And Bleed doesn't break down. It is a complete take, as shown on my list.

5. Why do you think the 'Iggy and Unknown Guitarist' tape appears to date from around the same time?

6. Isn't the idea that the guitarist was Tornado Turner just a speculation from this forum, with no evidence at all to back it up? - I know you only suggest that it's possible, but these things have a tendency to end up being quoted elsewhere as fact

Hope this helps.

andrew wrote:

Thanks for your comments. I'm currently going through the next bit, which I'll post here in due course, and which seems to correspond to the tape dated March 17 and 18. After that I think one more installment will probably cover everything I've got.

Great, looking forward to it.

Quote :

I do think a resource of some kind is a good idea, although I have some doubts as to whether Wikipedia is the place for it.

To be honest Wikipedia is just a way of getting it out there for people to see, the main advantage that other, more learned souls can correct my unreliable research and sloppy fact-checking!

Quote :

1. What's your source for the statement that these were made by by Williamson on his 2 track machine?

That's a very good question. I'm fairly sure I've read it somewhere, but can't seem to track down where. Maybe in one of the books? (And yes, I realise that this is breaking cardinal rule #1 of Wikipedia.)

Quote :

2. I'm not certain whether all the listed tapes actually circulate among collectors or not.

Noted.

Quote :

3. The second tape on the list from The Wild One is basically the stuff that came out on 'Rubber Legs' and appears in the book with the (common)assumption that this is from one separate studio session rather than, as appears to be the case, culled from the various rehearsal tapes.

Noted, and update made to this effect.

Quote :

4. The 3.14 take of Open Up And Bleed doesn't break down. It is a complete take, as shown on my list.

Sorry - corrected.

Quote :

5. Why do you think the 'Iggy and Unknown Guitarist' tape appears to date from around the same time?

Hmm, good point. I suppose simply because it's been lumped in with the same cache of tapes.

Quote :

6. Isn't the idea that the guitarist was Tornado Turner just a speculation from this forum, with no evidence at all to back it up? - I know you only suggest that it's possible, but these things have a tendency to end up being quoted elsewhere as fact

Yeah, I stated that it was 'possible' for that reason. Maybe I should reword...

Ok, the next part of the tape:-

The first 20 minutes or so don't seem to fit here. They could well be from the 'Iggy, Unknown Guitarist and Drum Machine' tape (which I don't have) as that's what we have, running through a few fragmentary rough song ideas. It doesn't seem to fit in with anything on the tape list, isn't the Stooges (or not more than two of them at most) and may well not be contemporary with the other recordings. It also isn't particularly interesting, I don't think. Moving on, what comes next seems to tally with the tape listed as March 11 and 19 (36 years ago today!)

Cock In My Pocket 3:55
On Heavy Liquid Disc 3, Track 5

Head On 5:07
On Heavy Liquid Disc 3, Track 2

Search And Destroy 4:22
As far as I can tell, Heavy Liquid Disc 3, Track 9 is edited down from this complete take

Search And Destroy (ending only) ~0:45 X 4
Unreleased. Band practice the end of the song.

Search And Destroy (false start) 0:11
Unreleased

Search And Destroy 4:09
Unreleased? This is a complete take, but hasn't been released as far as I know. (Seems I was wrong when I said I didn't think there any unreleased complete takes on the tapes)

Raw Power 4:13
Unreleased? (Complete take)

Raw Power 0:53 (false start)
Unreleased

Raw Power 4:38
Unreleased? (Complete take)

Raw Power 0:14 (false start)
Unreleased

Raw Power 0:10 (false start)
Unreleased

Raw Power 4:39
On Heavy Liquid Disc 3, Track 1

At this point things get a bit strange. We have a short section of I Need Somebody, but it isn't a rehearsal recording, it's the Raw Power LP recording! We then have the complete Death Trip, again from the LP. This hasn't stopped the track appearing as a "Detroit Rehearsal" on Heavy Liquid Disc 3, Track 7, plus on My Girl Hates My Heroin Track 4, though! (Probably also Track 4 on Year Of The Iguana is taken from here.)

Nowhere (aka Born In A Trailer) 7:32
On Heavy Liquid, Disc 3, Track 12
(Curiously the version of this track on Wild Love is clearly the same take but starts a little earlier than the version on the tape, Heavy Liquid and Till The End Of The Night.)

Mellow Down Easy 2:03
On Wild Love, Track 10

It isn't clear whether we are now in the "various jams" part of the March 11/19 tape or on a different tape, as Mellow Down Easy is listed on the February 25 tape (as is Nowhere.) It seems quite possible that the sessions are actually somewhat duplicated across the tapes. (Compare the February 20 tape with the undated March tape for example.) This could also account for the missing beginning of Nowhere on this tape.

Instrumental Jam 6:15
Unreleased

After this we are definitely on a different listed tape (apparently February 25, although it doesn't match up quite as neatly as things have done so far.) I'll cover that in the third and final installment.

cool, keep it coming Andrew.

one question, how different is the other version of Til the End of the Night (on Heavy Liquid)? - the only version I know is from the Revenge cd of the same title, it's a great song.

mc wrote:

one question, how different is the other version of Til the End of the Night (on Heavy Liquid)? - the only version I know is from the Revenge cd of the same title, it's a great song.

The Heavy Liquid version is also on Year Of The Iguana. It's about 50 seconds shorter. (Perhaps Easy Action picked this version to keep the CD length under 80 minutes?) It has different lyrics. The ending is faded, which indicates it's probably from an incomplete take. I think this version may also be on the final part of my tape. Will find out soon.

00-03-1973 Detroit Rehearsals
DISC 1
1 Wild Love (Emotional Problems)
2 Wild Love (Emotional Problems)
3 Till The End Of The Night (I Got a Problem)
4 Jam (up tempo part C to previous song)
5 Head on (inc)
6 Head On
7 Unknown song
8 Head On
9 I Need Somebody (inc)
10 Johanna
11 Johanna (distorted & Louder Cuts)
12 Johanna (cuts)
13 Johanna ( Vol Drops back down)
14 Johanna
15 Johanna (Cuts)
16 Johanna (cuts)
17 Johanna
18 Till The End Of The Night (I Got a Problem)
DISC 2
1 Till The End Of The Night (I Got a Problem)
2 Raw Power
3 Rubber Legs
4 Wild Love (Emotional Problems)
5 Wild Love (Emotional Problems)
6 Wild Love (Emotional Problems)
7 Unknown song (My Girl Hates My Heroin)
8 Open Up & Bleed
9 Jam
10 Jesus Loves the Stooges
11 Gimme Danger
12 Gimme Danger
13 Gimme Danger
DISC 3
1 Cock in my pocket
2 Head on
3 Search & Destroy
4 Search & Destroy
5 Search & Destroy
6 Search & Destroy
7 Search & Destroy
8 Search & Destroy
9 Raw Power
10 Raw Power
11 Raw Power
12 Raw Power
13 Raw Power
14 I Need Somebody (cut) (Raw Power LP recording)
15 Death Trip (Raw Power LP recording)
16 Instrumental Jam
DISC 4
1 Johanna
2 Johanna
3 Johanna
4 Rubber leggs (How it hurts)
5 Till The End Of The Night (I Got a Problem)
DISC 1/2 - 17-03-1973 and 18-03-1973
DISC 3/4 - 11-03-1973 and 19-03-1973


Detroit Rehearsals March 11 and 19 1973
---------------------------------------------------
Cock In My Pocket
Head On
Search And Destroy
Search And Destroy
Search And Destroy
Search And Destroy
Raw Power
Raw Power
Raw Power
Death Trip
Various Jams

Detroit Rehearsals March 17 and 18 1973
-----------------------------------------------------
Emotional Problems - Wild Love
Emotional Problems - Wild Love
I Gotta Problem - Till The End Of The Night
Jam
Head On
Head On
I Need Somebody

Detroit Rehearsal March 1973
--------------------------------------
I Gotta Problem -Till The End Of The Night
Raw Power
Rubber Legs
My Girl Hates My Heroin
Open Up And Bleed
jam
Jesus Loves The Stooges
Gimme Danger

I will still check the songs that are not in color.

Thanks, that's really helpful. I'll update the Wikipedia page soon.

So it looks like all of the tapes in Per's list are in circulation, except possibly this one:

Detroit Rehearsal February 3 1973
------------------
Rubber Legs
My Veins Are Crying
Rubber Legs
I Need Somebody
Black Ace
Johanna
Head On
Emotional Problems (aka Wild Love)

Does anyone have a tape with songs that might be identifiable with the titles My Veins Are Crying or Black Ace?

OK, I've finally updated the Wikipedia. Click

It looks like this bit from 'Detroit Rehearsals March 1973':

Jesus Loves The Stooges
Gimme Danger x 3

is the same as this bit from 'Detroit Rehearsals February 20 1973':

Jesus Loves the Stooges (9:10, various stops and starts)
Gimme Danger (3:10, breaks down) - -
Gimme Danger (4:20, breaks down) - -
Gimme Danger (6:01)

So I guess the former tape could well be another comp of bits of the others.

mark wrote:

OK, I've finally updated the Wikipedia. Click

It looks like this bit from 'Detroit Rehearsals March 1973':

Jesus Loves The Stooges
Gimme Danger x 3

is the same as this bit from 'Detroit Rehearsals February 20 1973':

Jesus Loves the Stooges (9:10, various stops and starts)
Gimme Danger (3:10, breaks down) - -
Gimme Danger (4:20, breaks down) - -
Gimme Danger (6:01)

So I guess the former tape could well be another comp of bits of the others.

You're right.

Detroit Rehearsal February 20 1973
---------------------------------------------
Johanna
Rubber Legs
Rubber Legs
I Gotta Problem
Open Up And Bleed
Open Up And Bleed
Jam
Jesus Loves The Stooges
Gimme Danger (slow)
Gimme Danger (fast)
Gimme Danger

Detroit Rehearsal March 1973
--------------------------------------
I Gotta Problem
Raw Power
Rubber Legs
My Girl Hates My Heroin
Open Up And Bleed
jam
Jesus Loves The Stooges
Gimme Danger

Red songs are the same. Tape labeled like Detroit Rehearsal February 20 1973 has 2 Open Up And Bleed takes more.
Jam is song She Creatures of Hollywood Hills.

________________________________________________________________________________

Studio Rehearsal 1973
--------------------------------------
Rubber Legs
Open Up And Bleed
Johanna
Cock In My Pocket
Rubber Legs
Head On
Cry For Me
The above tape may in fact be the master for the Rubber Legs album, compiled from various other tapes, as opposed to a set of unique recordings in its own right.

This tape is same as one tape on Heavy Liquid box (disc 4 / tracks 1-6).

00-07-1973 CBS Studios Rehearsals
Rehearsals for the upcoming shows at Max’s Kansas City
1 Rubber Legs
2 Johanna
3 Cock in my pocket
4 Head on Curve
5 Cry for me / Pinpoint eyes
6 Open up & Bleed
7 Rubber Legs #2

In circulation is this tape with complete song Cry for me / Pinpoint eyes.
1.Rubber Legs 5:39
2.Open Up And Bleed 5:08
3.Johanna 4:48
4.Cock In My Pocket 4:00
5.Head On 5:57
6.Cry For Me 9:20

On Rubber Legs LP and Heavy Liquid box Cry for me is a long 6:46 .


Thanks for link Mark

Ok, final part of tape - sorry for the wait. It looks as though this is probably bits of the "February 25" tape, bits of the "March 17 and 18" tape, plus maybe bits from elsewhere.

Johanna 4:48
Unreleased? (Complete take)

Johanna 1:43 (Incomplete)
Unreleased. This is an instrumental run through, with a couple of tape cuts. (On at least some of these rehearsal tapes, the tape seems to have been rewound and reused - for example you get you get some very short fragments of takes left on the tape, and sometimes what appears to be short sections of recordings run backwards.)

Johanna 1:46 (Incomplete)
Unreleased. Another instrumental run through.

How It Hurts 4:28
On Heavy Liquid, Disc 3, Track 9

Till The End Of The Night 3:39 (Incomplete - cut at end)
Unreleased? This version has completely different lyrics to the two released versions.

Johanna 8:49
On Heavy Liquid, Disc 3, Track 10

Till The End Of The Night 3:25 (Incomplete - cuts in at start)
Unreleased. Only the ending of the song is present on the tape.

Head On 1:09 (Incomplete tape fragment)
Unreleased

Head On 6:42 (Contains tape cut at 1:20, but otherwise complete)
Unreleased

Head On 5:39
Unreleased? (Complete take)

Hey Baby 3:29
On Heavy Liquid, Disc 3, Track 14

Nowhere 0:47 (Incomplete tape fragment)
Unreleased. This is the basic riff of Nowhere/Born In A Trailer, but the sole lyric is "I want you to want me", repeated over and over.

Unfortunately that is all I have. I'd love to see or do a similar exercise on the other circulating rehearsal recordings though...

Iguanas wrote:

In circulation is this tape with complete song Cry for me / Pinpoint eyes.
1.Rubber Legs 5:39
2.Open Up And Bleed 5:08
3.Johanna 4:48
4.Cock In My Pocket 4:00
5.Head On 5:57
6.Cry For Me 9:20

On Rubber Legs LP and Heavy Liquid box Cry for me is a long 6:46 .

That appears to be taken from the bootleg LP "Studio Rehearsals 73-74", which, as far as I know, was the first time these tracks appeared together, and presumably led to the assumption they came from one studio session. It came out not long before the Rubber Legs LP, which I think was probably sourced from the bootleg, and was in turn probably the source of every(?) subsequent reisssue of these tracks. Cry For Me on the bootleg, is indeed 9:20, whereas every(?) subsequent release is faded out for some reason. Also the tracks on the bootleg appear to be at about the right speed, whereas on every(?) subsequent release they sound too fast.

It is a bit of mystery why Bomp, in particular, should appear to have sourced their release of these tracks (on Open Up And Bleed) from the Rubber Legs LP (same fast speed and same faded Cry For Me), when they supposedly have the original rehearsal tapes.

The listing of these tracks in the Wild One derives ultimately from the bootleg LP - it can be discounted as a separate tape, I think.

Is Cry for Me on any of the other tapes? I can't spot it in Per's tracklistings, does it appear under another title?

Shakes wrote:

from what i could gather it was a legit label. the back of the 'my girl loves my heroin' cd mentions thanks to greg shaw, ron asheton, etc. and that the tapes belong to bomp with copyright, etc.

It may thank them, but I don't think we can infer for sure that those people were actually involved in, or consented to the Revenge releases

There seem to be a number of suggestions by Bomp (in the sleeve notes of Wild Love for example) that the Revenge releases were unauthorised.

Shakes wrote:

i used to think they were unofficial as well, but later learned they were just another label.

http://www.discogs.com/label/Revenge+Records+(2)

That seems to be a different Revenge!

mark wrote:

- On Wild Love, is there any indication of where Delta Blues Shuffle/Old King Live Forever/Look So Sweet/Mellow Down Easy/Move Ass Baby are from - ie are they full band or from the 'Iggy & unknown guitarist' tape?

Just to add: 'Move Ass Baby' previously appeared as the second part of 'Dynamite Boogie' on Revenge.