Raw Power Embassy Reels?

StoogeFan wrote:

I gotta agree with the sentiment that the leagcy edition is being unfairly dismissed. In a way I have been dreading this release and the possibility that it would not improve the sound that much. The first time I listened to it though I could hear a noticeable difference especialy on Gimme Danger and I need somebody. It would be nice to hear the bass, drums and rhythem guitar more (especially on Death trip) but I do think the remaster sounds quite a bit better and I am not particualrily a fan of the Bowie mix.

Stooges Fan,

Listened to the whole LP again last night in bed. I was struck by how Death Trip and Penetration sounded. The drums somehow have become more physical and I can even follow the bass lines now. The songs become more rhythmic – they are being propelled along in a way I never felt before. Actually - those two songs suddenly made sense for the first time.

I started buying into the whole anti-Bowie thing when Rough Power came out. But Rough Power doesn't do any of it any justice and Iggy murdered it with his remix. So I went back to the vinyl as the 1989 CD was OK but plain dull and flat.

Now its clear that Bowie is the only viable mix we have and this CD remaster shows that it works and works very well. The LP has a real dark subtle mood and atmosphere that makes it resonate in my ears. Death Trip and Penetration are excellent examples of that.

I think that this remaster allows the strange heavy beauty of the album to unfold the more you hear it.

listen to the three tracks from Raw Power on the Iggy compilation "Million in Prizes"...don't they sound better than the new Legacy issue? (i think so)

gazatthebop wrote:

listen to the three tracks from Raw Power on the Iggy compilation "Million in Prizes"...don't they sound better than the new Legacy issue? (i think so)

I haven't heard it but I'll try and track it down.

its the iggy 1997 remix...i'm starting to like that better...a louder belch!!

gazatthebop wrote:

its the iggy 1997 remix...i'm starting to like that better...a louder belch!!

Ok. I have the remix. But I thought Iggy overplayed the burp, to be honest. I was brought up on the Bowie mix and have always enjoyed listening to it more. I guess I found the remix a little tiring and very bright.

With regard to the Bowie mix versus Iggy mix, imagine if Iggy's 1997 mix had instead been released in 1973. Then imagine if we had been promised a whole new remix 24 years later - and had been presented with Bowie's mix. How would people have felt? It's worth a thought....

Getting this thread back on topic, the Embassy Reels are being suspected as simply a differently mastered Bowie mix. But we may be overlooking something obvious. Iggy's original mix was rejected and consigned to the vaults. Bowie was drafted in to remix. But.....was Iggy in the studio when Bowie was working? If so, was he actually pushing Bowie to try for a mix similar to his own? Admittedly this is conjecture, but it would explain why the Embassy reels appear to be so close to the Bowie version.

both iggy and james were present when bowie re-mixed according to james recently

My thought is embassy reels=bowie mix.And there's nothing from the original iggy mix on the deluxe box set.
But where's that damn original mix?Could have been remastered and released.
if it still exists,maybe is lost....

Are we sure there was a complete "Iggy" mix of Raw Power back in '72? The tracks played on WABX were advertised as a very rough mix. Scotty makes reference in the new booklet to something similar. The few tracks that have leaked have also been relatively rough. Iggy has always said he had trouble mixing the record, sleeping with the 2 inch tapes, etc. Maybe the Bowie/Western Studios mix was the first full attempt at a releaseble mix?

TeddyB1018 wrote:

Are we sure there was a complete "Iggy" mix of Raw Power back in '72? The tracks played on WABX were advertised as a very rough mix. Scotty makes reference in the new booklet to something similar. The few tracks that have leaked have also been relatively rough. Iggy has always said he had trouble mixing the record, sleeping with the 2 inch tapes, etc. Maybe the Bowie/Western Studios mix was the first full attempt at a releaseble mix?

It is a matter of record that Iggy mixed the entire album but the master tapes were rejected. Iggy himself has confirmed this in interviews.

StoogesFan wrote:

TeddyB1018 wrote:

Are we sure there was a complete "Iggy" mix of Raw Power back in '72? The tracks played on WABX were advertised as a very rough mix. Scotty makes reference in the new booklet to something similar. The few tracks that have leaked have also been relatively rough. Iggy has always said he had trouble mixing the record, sleeping with the 2 inch tapes, etc. Maybe the Bowie/Western Studios mix was the first full attempt at a releaseble mix?

It is a matter of record that Iggy mixed the entire album but the master tapes were rejected. Iggy himself has confirmed this in interviews.

Why dont release that stuff on a label like EA?Most of the tracks on rough power are pretty good.We got everything from that era except what is supposed to be the original RP mix.....

On the compilations "Penetration" and "Original Punks" the are several tracks that are supposed to be stooge raw power mixes (I need somebody, raw power, penetration and gimme danger). The liner notes say that all of the tracks used for the release where licensed from Bomp records. The sound quality is better though than the stuff on rough power. Maybe since Bomp is a smaller label it just didn't have the resources to properly clean up the tapes at the time or the technology for that sort of thing is just more advanced now. They still sound rough but in my opinion better than the stuuf on the bomp release (could be different versions). Maybe someone could convince James to oversee a release of the original mixes on Bomp records like he is doing with kill city.

Don't know about the others but Death Trip on Original Punks seems to be the album mix collapsed to mono. Will listen to the others tomorrow, need to go to bed now!

I finally found a vinyl version with the (good) cassette mix! This is an original 1973 CBS UK pressing (not Embassy???). Inner sleeve is not B&W picture of Iggy but advertising for other CBS releases. So may be it's not a "very first" pressing. Datsun mentioned the Raw Power LP he bought just after it was released back in 1973, did not have the alternate cassette mix of S&D. Mine does!
I ripped it in FLAC & mp3, and posted it, but my message was immediately deleted. Sad, because I was more than happy to share it with you, it really smokes and sounds better than the cassette.
Dura lex, sed lex.

Did you post it on the bootlegs section?

G, F#, E wrote:

Did you post it on the bootlegs section?

No, I posted it here, but I think we're not allowed to post official release anywhere....are we?

Old album versions with different mixes that aren't avalible should be allowed, but download links need to be on the bootleg section unless they're official.

JP you just made Stooges history ! This is brilliant. This is the album I grew up with.

Would it be possible to post the matrix number for the pictured RAW POWER LP?

NOS300B wrote:

Would it be possible to post the matrix number for the pictured RAW POWER LP?

Matrix numbers are S 65586 A1 & S 65586 B1

jpstooges wrote:

I finally found a vinyl version with the (good) cassette mix! This is an original 1973 CBS UK pressing (not Embassy???). Inner sleeve is not B&W picture of Iggy but advertising for other CBS releases. So may be it's not a "very first" pressing. Datsun mentioned the Raw Power LP he bought just after it was released back in 1973, did not have the alternate cassette mix of S&D. Mine does!
I ripped it in FLAC & mp3, and posted it, but my message was immediately deleted. Sad, because I was more than happy to share it with you, it really smokes and sounds better than the cassette.
Dura lex, sed lex.

Awesome! Too bad I missed! At least we know now which one to look for.

mr.datsun wrote:

gazatthebop wrote:

I agree that if you want an improvement on the 1988 (1989 is being mentioned a lot but it was 1988) Bowie mix cd you will most probably be disappointed

I love it – an LP that resists the corporate need to remaster and re-market. What an achievement from Mr Pop and Mr Bowie. I like it even more for that.

But seriously I think that the remaster is being dismissed too quickly. I only have a 200kbps vbr download (until my legit copy arrives- honest, guv!) but can hear the difference. Yes it's the same album as the original – who would want otherwise? But on my hifi I can really notice a new presence that goes beyond a 1db loudness difference. Gimme Danger is a good place to start as you can hear a better portrayal of the guitars, more realistic percussion and more space between the instruments for your mind to wander. Ditto throughout as I listen. It's not a kick you in the arse-teeth difference but a sound quality difference. More real, I'd say. I like it.

Also it's the version of the LP that needs to be heard properly since the 1980's CD went out of print.

Exactly.

jpstooges wrote:

NOS300B wrote:

Would it be possible to post the matrix number for the pictured RAW POWER LP?

Matrix numbers are S 65586 A1 & S 65586 B1

Thanks!

jpstooges wrote:

NOS300B wrote:

Would it be possible to post the matrix number for the pictured RAW POWER LP?

Matrix numbers are S 65586 A1 & S 65586 B1

Interesting – same matrix nos. as mine. Does it have PN-2 scratched on the lead out of side 2?

I'm beginning to wonder if I do have the alt mix of S&D!

mr.datsun wrote:

jpstooges wrote:

NOS300B wrote:

Would it be possible to post the matrix number for the pictured RAW POWER LP?

Matrix numbers are S 65586 A1 & S 65586 B1

Interesting – same matrix nos. as mine. Does it have PN-2 scratched on the lead out of side 2?

I'm beginning to wonder if I do have the alt mix of S&D!

Yes, it has PN-2 (only on side 2)