The Dum Dum Boys - Question for Paul T!

Is "Dum Dum Boys" a put down. or is it simply their nickname?!

P.S. - I am in the middle of the "Berlin" section of your book!!

^ Was kinda wondering about this myself.

After reading the book, it made me think more about the track from The Idiot.

But at the start, "What's Rock doing now?"
"He's living with his mother" just seems a bit sarcastic.

It is a great track, but is it a tribute or a dig?

Who on the forum (Paul?) can tell us more about this song?
When it was made exactly?

And same as Sheddy and MG...
i was wondering if it is a put down or a tribute
to me it sounds as a love/hate tribute
a nasty thing...
Great song though!

As you've guess, it is a put-down... Iggy often used to narrate crazed stories about the Stooges as a party-piece, so Bowie suggested he made it into a song.

I think there is a degree of affection there, cos really Iggy was a dum dum boy himself (None of the other Stooges have ever used the term btw). But it's the casual put-downs that grate... in fact, Iggy made quips about Ron living with his mom just about every time I've ever seen him. He does the same about James going straight. And it's not particularly tasteful re Zeke, either.

...but, on the other hand, it's a great song. That great sequence of descending broken chords was one Bowie came up with, he was obviously a pretty decent guitarist.

Hope you enjoy the Berlin chapter!

Edit: a lot of Iggy's feelings about the Stooges were to do with what he felt of as his failure with the band. So the bitterness there is not just about them, it's about the band's failure, too. He seemed particularly bitter about James for some reason, tried to block the release of Kill City (then changed his mind when it became popular and called James up). When he talks about seeing them outside the old drug store there is real affection there, too.

I always assumed from the end of the song - "I need your noise" - that he was almost holding out an olive branch to the remaining members of the band and acknowledging that it wasn't quite the same without them. But I've never been too sure of how to take the gratuitously mean introduction.
Terrific song!
Cheers,
Richard

Paul T wrote:

in fact, Iggy made quips about Ron living with his mom just about every time I've ever seen him. !

remember Ron referring to this in a past interview, (I mean before the reunion.) I don't know that it was being mean but Ron did seem to feel it as a kind of put-down then...
(btw he doesn't still live with his mother does he??)

Thanks a lot Paul you're writing here what you know!
I was prob. focussed on other info when reading the Berlin part of your book.

so...Iggy and Bowies idea to make a song out of it
has a pretty humiliating intention
though everybody hears these mixed emotions
it's also this bluesy undertone in the music...
and Richard quoted the right text...
maybe when Bowie wrote the music he felt very well the meaning of what happened between the Stooges guys (?)

Indeed...it's 'not particularly tasteful' at all...
still...a strange..and great song!!

Sadly Anne Asheton died around a year ago. I think ron still lives in her old house.

She was a real den mother... I think the Ashetons' dad died before they moved to Ann Arbor, and she was the one who kept everything together. I got to meet her when I first started on the Iggy book... I was sitting in her living room with Ron, the floor is covered with disassembled AK47s and other automatic weapons, there is a smell of pot in the air, the TV is still on the sci fi channel, it's around 6 in the morning and she's leaving to go to an antique fair... she was questiong ROn to make sure he'd feed the cat, it was very funny.

At core Iggy KNOWS he needs the Stooges, and that they were the making of him. But they go back to high school and there's always going to be a degree of niggling there. Having spent years listening to Iggy slag them off, I felt absolutely tearful seeing htem on stage together for the Odeon Fun House show, with Iggy applauding them. I remember saying to ron "he loves you." But teir inter-personal chemistry has to be as complicated as it gets.

Paul what you write about their mom's house has a weird alienating quality!
Guess this must have been also one of the Asheton quality's Iggy noticed..when asking the brothers to play together in a band.
This 'quality' can also be choking for someone like Iggy...cuz it beholds a conservative attitude
yeah..it's very clear..the perfect ingredients were there for a never ending complicated inter personal thing
..wow..

while we're at it, were any of you suprised at iggy telling ron that dave alexander died as callously as he did?
"'zander's dead and I don't care 'cause he wasn't my friend anyway."
i'm sure being in that band must have been tough for everyone at times, but that just seemed pretty mean.

Yes, it was mean. But again, I don't know just how far Iggy 'meant' it.

As for Ron, doesn't he also have a nice big house beside a lake now, or something?

Yes, he does (have a big house by the lakes).

Oh, re "Zander's dead,', that is true, but I think he was very bothered.

I just found this quote from Michael Tipton, who was a friend of the band and taped many of their shows:

"Dave, I think really upset him when he died, it seemed like it really bothered him. he's always tried to pretend he has no emotions, or only these real superficial emotions. When he was calling from Ca I knew he was in trouble, I could sense the depression..."

i always thought that, they were so close it wouldve been hard not to have been depresed at one of their deaths esp dave as he appeared to be the most 'needy' or weakest i guess, there was a vulnerability i think

but yeh i also thought iggy was upset at his death, the bluntness of his remark at zanders death shows how it effected him

HJW

I was wondering why that name, 'Michael Tipton' sounded vaguely familiar...I was getting him mixed up with that Brtiish composer bloke, Michael Tippett, haha

Nadja wrote:

As for Ron, doesn't he also have a nice big house beside a lake now, or something?

And if so, why hasn't he invited me over yet?



This is a great thread.

that Tipton quote made me feel better!

Thanks for the responses Paul!

I thought it sounded "what's Rock doing?" but I guess it was "Ron".
Despite all the snide comments, it really is a good track that moves along at a steady pace and Iggy sounds great.

After reading Paul's book and several Ron interviews, it's Ron who was hurt the most by the spilt of The Stooges, in my opinion.

I'm a big fan of Ron as he seems like a genuinely nice guy who loves his work.
In TV interviews, take the Jonathan Ross one on youtube for example, Iggy still takes centre stage; Scott is quiet; Watt is nowhere to be seen, but Ron always has something interesting to add without taking over.

Here's hoping we see a Ron Asheton book or even an Asheton brothers book...
Get on it Paul

Agree with everything you said sheddy (esp. about Ron)

Iggys the frontman, and any interviewer would immediately address him as that, and as one of the greatest musicians in rock n roll and a survivor, he's naturally the focus for ppl who arent fans and arent attuned to the fact that the band is the band, one for all thing but he's the frontman thats what theyre there for, sure ppl always address jagger with questions and keith or ron or charlie will add in a wee bit here or there,i think thats the reason
i dont get all this, well its not iggy-bashing, but it seems like over-sympathising with the ashetons (and maybe not enuff for james sometimes)

they wouldve spilit neway, there was no way that band was continuing with all the animosity and drugs and everything around them not happening i.e. no recognition

also i see the song as endearing actually, amean obviously with a hint of a derogatory tone, but i think that was as paul put it cause he saw the stooges as his failure, which he mustve hated

HJW

for myself, iggy always seemed to be a pretty decent guy, which is why i was suprised at his remarks. as i said, the quote above made me feel a bit better about it.
as far as sympathy for the ashetons, there is some of that here in detroit (at least among folks i speak to) not out of an anti-iggy stance, but rather that for all the attention iggy got post stooges, ron & scott should have been getting some of that too. the little barbs iggy would sometimes throw at them probably didn't help either ("couldn't put together a aquarium, let alone a song", etc.
it's nice that since the reunion it seems to be more of an equal playing field.

Its definily a good thing, and as paul said iggy knows how much he needs the stooges to work, so the camaraderie is as much old friends reunited and gettin on as it is business i suspect, sure iggy said in an interview that the same things happened as in the 60s/70s, same tastes and similarity between them, but the same 'demon' as he called it, ''rears its head'' distrust probly, well maybe not distrust but that break apart differences thing i think

The best analysis here is that Iggy 'is the singer". They're nearly all like that! They have to be the centre of attention. So then the guitarist complains about them, and so on.

It's a very complex chemistry... and for me, one fo the interesting parts of the Iggy story is his relationships with Ron, James, and Bowie - he respected them all, worked with them, but his appreciation for them is also... I guess "qualified" would be the word.

I had a bunch of chats with Iggy and Stooges fans in Michigan over the last few days, and we talked about this a lot. One thing I remember discussing is that Iggy went thorough a lot of extreme, disturbing experiences. And hard times don't always make us more generous or loving - they can also make us more bitter, cynical and selfish. THat's just human psychology.

Edit: by the way, before I got my plane back to London, I went down to photograph (what remain of) The Grande Ballroom and the Michigan Palace. I'll post pics on my website soonish...

the Grande Ballroom! yeah, it'd be good to see some more photos of it!

so there isn't much left of it now? wish I could have a chance to see it before they demolish it completely or something

and, Paul & zenta, it's great to hear views from Detroit! cheers!

i'm not sure if you have to join the group to see these or not, but i posted 2 folders of grande pics here.

http://launch.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/MC5_1967/photos/browse/d01c

http://launch.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/MC5_1967/photos/browse/cfba