james williamson up on youtube now live sat night sept 5

Whew, that was ugly...

Derek, I don't think anyone meant any disrespect. I didn't even weigh in here myself, but I read all the posts. We ALL get a bit rusty when we haven't played in a bit. As a guitarist myself, I've had to knock the rust off more than a few times. James-rusty or not-can still kick my ass. And I have NO doubt that he will get better with time. It's nothing to get worked up over.

Perhaps I came across as surly..

It just isn't a valid argument, in my opinion. James' playing has always been choppy and angular. He isn't a smooth player, nor was he on Raw Power or Kill City. There were plenty of guitar aficionado's right up front that were cheering on every solo. Criticizing his playing in that way to me is like saying Neil Young is "sloppy". Yeah, well thats what we love about him. If James came out and played smooth Santana licks, who would wanna hear that?

James gave a mind blowing performance. I was there. Read the review of the audience member who was there, too on the "tonight" thread.

Perhaps you heard my mistake on Search and thought it was James. Yeah, I made a clam. It's live music, and once again, I just don't get the criticism. Saying "he could be better". Yeah, well what is "better". To me, it doesn't get any better than what I heard 4 feet away from James amp the other night. The man laid it all out on the table and DELIVERED.

Most of my favorite guitarists have a bit of a "sloppy" quality to them. I never was one for the overly "technical" guys. For example, a small of some of my favorite players, in addition to James:

Ron Asheton
Jimmy Page
Keith Richards
Neil Young
Mick Taylor (though he plays mighty "clean" at times too)


NONE of those guys are overly "technical". They are all about feel and emotion rather than being "perfect". Music's gotta come from the heart and soul, otherwise it's just so much generic noise.

I hear what you're saying, Derek. But as far as James goes, even though he's damned hot considering a 35 year layoff, he WILL get even better. So good we'll all lose our minds listening.

Oh yeah. I'm jealous as hell that you got to share the same stage.

I can't really tell from hearing a Youtube clip.

Ps I love live mistakes

dereksee wrote:

Perhaps I came across as surly..

It just isn't a valid argument, in my opinion. James' playing has always been choppy and angular. He isn't a smooth player, nor was he on Raw Power or Kill City. There were plenty of guitar aficionado's right up front that were cheering on every solo. Criticizing his playing in that way to me is like saying Neil Young is "sloppy". Yeah, well thats what we love about him. If James came out and played smooth Santana licks, who would wanna hear that?

James gave a mind blowing performance. I was there. Read the review of the audience member who was there, too on the "tonight" thread.

Perhaps you heard my mistake on Search and thought it was James. Yeah, I made a clam. It's live music, and once again, I just don't get the criticism. Saying "he could be better". Yeah, well what is "better". To me, it doesn't get any better than what I heard 4 feet away from James amp the other night. The man laid it all out on the table and DELIVERED.

Derek

Sorry if I sounded critical I meant it in a good way, as in "if this was his first show, how great will the next ones be?" sort of way . Those clips raised my personal bar for how I want to sound and inspired the hell out of me.

You have to remember we're mega fans in here and we really haven't had ANY well recorded live tracks from James, just bad audience recordings from '73-'74, this is a HUGE deal to us to be able to see this version of the band live and appreciated as it will be when they play live. I was tearing up during Search and Destroy when the audience was singing along because i knew the the last times James was playing that he was dodging bottles and enduring insults directed at Iggy.

35 years is a long time for James and us to wait and maybe some of our expectations and impatience get in our way, but I don't think anyone was truly being overly critical.

many can sound good in front of a bunch of drunk yahoos who don't get out much.......

His action is weak.....he's not holding down the string or hitting the fret on target = a weak sounding note.....which is not a good thing when playing lead......deal with it.......

Who do you think he's going to be playing in front of on tour? Long standing Stooge fans who ARE professional musicians...and many others who are long standing fans.....

Know one here is bashing James.....just honest observations......most are glad he's back on board


Scotty kinda sucked, initially, on the reunion tour.... and as time passed... came around in a blaze of glory....

Uh oh....

"Radish" you are making observations about low quality clips on youtube and you have no idea what you are talking about. Wait til the pro video is available to see. You will be eating crow.

here's a review by someone ELSE who was there:

http://www.sanjose.com/stooges-lead-guitarist-in-san-jose-a21301

I thought it was killer, imo.

hank67 wrote:

PRACTISE IS ESSENTIAL, HE WILL BE READY FOR 2010

There's always gonna be naysayers. Very easy to post vitriol on the web in a faceless way.

I think it's going to be fantastic. This was an excellent way for James to transition back in.

Derek,

I will give you my face. I attended more than 70 Stooge concerts from '69 through '74 on addition to rehearsals. I have heard James when he was very good and the few times he was not so good. I have heard him play duel lead with Ron and when he was the lead. I have been there when songs were in their infancy and have been lucky enough to hear many of the songs come to fruition. I heard songs from '71 that the band no longer remembers.

I think I know from where I speak.

I said listening to the YouTube clips did not do it for me. I also said I know how good James is and was and that he would get there again. If you think I was being critical, sorry. I was merely making an observation.

I have always been a major fan of James' guitar style. I am looking forward to seeing the Stooges on stage with James.

I certainly did not mean to upset you or James or anybody else on the forum.
We usually don't argue on the forum. I would like the no arguing part to remain that way.

I will be happy to listen to the professional clips when they are made available. But this time, I think I will keep my opinion to myself!

Peace, Natalie[center]

This is my first time posting anything on this Site. I have read time and time again many opinions on the Stooges ranging from Love Ron/ Hate Williamson.
Love Williamson/Hate Ron to Long live the Stooges/ Stooges are dead (due to Ron's Death). I have decided to say something this time to this particular posting because I was there in the audience that night. I am not a musician, I don't play a guitar and I don't understand music theory from a rabbits ass.
But I do know this. Being in the audience and witnessing the show first hand was the most exhilarating moment I have had. The audience was going absolutely Batshit CRAZY and it was a moment that I truly wish I could have frozen in time. And they were drunk on the music, not the booze. I think Stooge fans know a shit show when they see one and should be given far more credit. And trust me they were loving it. There were many people in the audience that I know personally that didn't think this was gonna work. And they were singing a different tune in the end.

I knew and expected you nay sayers to say something. I figured you would cause your that lamely predictable. Nay sayers are almost always never at the event. I gave you two days to put your bullshit opinion in and sure enough it was two days. You always have to say something cause Nay sayers also feel they know better than everyone else.
Blah Blah Blah. Whah Whah. Your crying does get tedious. And I am calling you on it. Deal with that "Mr I'm so cool that I haven't made it in the music business, but my opinion matters"
Well hears my opinion as a non musician. I don't care if he made a few mistakes and I don't care if it wasn't perfect in sound or execution. It was an amazing show. It was FUCKING AMAZING TO BE THERE! And I'm sorry you opinionated anal retentive MUSIC NERDS can't appreciate that.

Natalie, believe me, I hate arguing.

I agree that I get a bit fired up earlier. I just think it is very unfair that people would post that he needs to practice. It is EXTREMELY rude in my opinion considering this was his first gig in 35 years! I say once again, he did a fabulous job and it was incredible hearing that guitar again. we are very lucky that he is still HERE to play guitar and that he is willing to do it on stage again.

I'll never forget when Neil Young was on Saturday Night Live in 1989, debuting Rockin In The Free World. He played a blazing, out of tune, jagged, freaky guitar solo that blew my 14 year old mind. I knew I never wanted to travel in the middle of the road from that day on. James' playing has a similar effect in its edgy, jagged, unique, firey, and, yes, sometimes sloppy way. Listen to Gimme Danger on Raw Power; it is all passion and fire with little regard for a smooth sound. Proud to report that that is how it still is, after all those years. The skull is fulla fire and attitude.

Derek,

I don't want to make this a runaway thread but I remember that SNL with Neil Young and I agree with you. I thought he was wonderful that night and the few times I saw him perform live.

Getting back to James, I do not think anybody intended rudeness. Almost everybody on the forum is a James fan and I think they are all overjoyed that he is back.

We are all chomping at the bit to hear "Raw Power" live. For most of the people it will be the first time . For me it is with mixed emotions but I can't wait !

Looking forward to the professional clips you speak of. And congratulations to you and your band. You have become a part of history.

I'm not a real James fan.. do like Ron's sound more.
But the opportunity to hear and see Raw Power and other songs from the source itself > is to me the most incredible gift!!
Live in concert!!

And hey.. all the Stooges guy's do their best. That's what we get.
What do you want more???

Ofcourse when they were younger it all maybe sounded better and stuff.
But as I read the history.. there was always something people were critical about.
That never seems to stop

dereksee wrote:

"Radish" you are making observations about low quality clips on youtube and you have no idea what you are talking about. Wait til the pro video is available to see. You will be eating crow.

...About those youtube videos, I still can't believe that anyone can say anything about James. You can't reall hear him on those clips, cause the camera is on the wrong side of the stage - I can hardly hear James at all...when it comes to guitar - all I really here is Derek, I can't hear Steve McKay either...I had to really TURN IT UP to hear James play the solo in Raw Power and I can't say if it was good or bad.

ZinZin wrote:

.
But as I read the history.. there was always something people were critical about.
That never seems to stop

Sounds like another criticism.
Fans are always going to be engaging in debate - and being critical - what else is a forum for? As long as they're not snide and nasty with it.
People are really getting worked up... I suppose it's a sign of how emotional a time this is for the band and its fans.

Now, before someone tells me to get off my high horse, LOL...I also can't wait for the official clips. Exciting times!

well, stating that he needs to practice is just stating the obvious. i personally dont see how its rude, at all.

james himself has stated that hes a little rusty.

personally...i think the videos are nothing short of BADASS! yes, its clear that there were indeed a few minor fuck-ups, and im sure williamson himself realizes this and wouldnt take any offense to FANS noticing. i mean, the fans know these songs, right? they know what they wanna hear? nothing wrong w/ a little corrective criticism.


considering that he hasnt really played these songs in 35 years, and the fact that they are as badass as they are...i think everything is going be just fine.

i have no doubt that the "quirks" will be well worked out well before next year.

modbird99 wrote:

This is my first time posting anything on this Site. I have read time and time again many opinions on the Stooges ranging from Love Ron/ Hate Williamson.
Love Williamson/Hate Ron to Long live the Stooges/ Stooges are dead (due to Ron's Death). I have decided to say something this time to this particular posting because I was there in the audience that night. I am not a musician, I don't play a guitar and I don't understand music theory from a rabbits ass.
But I do know this. Being in the audience and witnessing the show first hand was the most exhilarating moment I have had. The audience was going absolutely Batshit CRAZY and it was a moment that I truly wish I could have frozen in time. And they were drunk on the music, not the booze. I think Stooge fans know a shit show when they see one and should be given far more credit. And trust me they were loving it. There were many people in the audience that I know personally that didn't think this was gonna work. And they were singing a different tune in the end.

I knew and expected you nay sayers to say something. I figured you would cause your that lamely predictable. Nay sayers are almost always never at the event. I gave you two days to put your bullshit opinion in and sure enough it was two days. You always have to say something cause Nay sayers also feel they know better than everyone else.
Blah Blah Blah. Whah Whah. Your crying does get tedious. And I am calling you on it. Deal with that "Mr I'm so cool that I haven't made it in the music business, but my opinion matters"
Well hears my opinion as a non musician. I don't care if he made a few mistakes and I don't care if it wasn't perfect in sound or execution. It was an amazing show. It was FUCKING AMAZING TO BE THERE! And I'm sorry you opinionated anal retentive MUSIC NERDS can't appreciate that.

i agree with ya for the most part...

i do want to add, though, that actual musicians do tend to view things a little bit differently. i appreciated the stooges more once i learned to play a bit of it on guitar. i realized the full extent of ron's creativity once i started trying to play his songs....

...same thing for james williamson. i just didnt appreciate him as much in the early stages of my stooges fandom.

musicans do have a habit of wanting to compare...its really the same thing as that endless "page or hendrix" debate.