Number of posts : 16 Age : 55 Location : UK Registration date : 2009-09-29
Subject: Re: Iggy planning new material Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:02 pm
Reading thru this post I am not sure I follow the views on James being somehow less orginal or more commercial than Ron. I love Funhouse era material and totally recognise Ron's art in it but Raw Power will always be my fave just cos of the sheer intensity of his playing. The wiki has it on the money:-
He played louder and raunchier than almost anybody at the time, with a jagged high-energy approach
Thats his originalty right there. His thing was to tap right back into the source of R&R and re-charge it, make it matter again. I totally accept some material post RP is less original like Open up and Bleed, Kill City but I still don't picture the guy writing the materail with his pension in mind
Petrie Terrace "Flame On!"
Number of posts : 399 Location : Heaven Registration date : 2008-01-05
Subject: Re: Iggy planning new material Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:01 pm
Harmonia, I totally agree with you (and applaud your choice of user name, by the way), re "His thing was to tap right back into the source of R&R and re-charge it, make it matter again." And I would stand up for James as one of the greatest rock'n'roll guitar players of all time, and often have/do. But ...
Re the originality stakes: Barring Shake Appeal and the two slow songs, which are both quite Stonesy, the actual song "Raw Power", specifically, and to a lesser but still noticeable extent the songs on "Raw Power" the album in general, all share a common blueprint, and this song was four years old in 1972 ...
"He played louder and raunchier than almost anybody at the time, with a jagged high-energy approach"
Perdu
Number of posts : 313 Registration date : 2009-10-12
Subject: Re: Iggy planning new material Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:14 pm
If Pop-Williamson write new material that incites new material from the next generation, as the above clip* did for the prior generation, perhaps they'll save rock and roll from itself for a second time. Here, here!
*clip reminded me that Jagger has reclaimed the mantle of best abs in the business lately. He probably hasn't hurt himself quite as much.
Petrie Terrace "Flame On!"
Number of posts : 399 Location : Heaven Registration date : 2008-01-05
Subject: Re: Iggy planning new material Wed Feb 24, 2010 7:21 pm
Perdu wrote:
If Pop-Williamson write new material that incites new material from the next generation, as the above clip* did for the prior generation, perhaps they'll save rock and roll from itself for a second time. Here, here!
*clip reminded me that Jagger has reclaimed the mantle of best abs in the business lately. He probably hasn't hurt himself quite as much.
I'll second that one!
Re Mick being in better shape, true, but then, he didn't have to try and outdo Mick Jagger night after night.
homesickjameswilliamson Modern Guy, Modern Guy
Number of posts : 3439 Age : 35 Location : Stoogeland Registration date : 2007-07-07
Subject: Re: Iggy planning new material Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:37 pm
Quote :
Nobody has the deciding post or opinion here. It's about choice and making up your own mind.
I don't see a poll, Ron vs James. It's not needed!
Natalie
Natalie I didnt mean to suggest Loose has a deciding vote or anything (sorry Steve...) just these kinds of arguments always come up every so often and Loose always reminds me at least to calm down and look at both of them equally
they are two entirely different players, i dont even konw how anyone can compare them, its like keith richards and eddie van halen, jimmy page, jack white, dylan or those guys from dragonforce lol - its impossible, totally different styles, and as you say all opinion - its just funny how these arguments come up sometimes
i think its amazing the stooges has had two of the most original and brilliant guitarists ever, that created amazing music which people still listen to and - at least its my own theory - created contemporary music as it is (dunno what that says about them though lol)
anyway, didnt mean to suggest anyone was right or anything, just thought it was funny Loose yet again brings it all back down, for me at least
Radiobirdman73
Number of posts : 171 Registration date : 2010-01-26
Subject: Re: Iggy planning new material Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:31 pm
regardless of personal opinions over who the better guitar player is/was (something I never said but for some reason it morphed into that) - i'm looking forward to the new album for a couple reasons.
First - I love the Williamson/Pop material
Second - I was equally exited when the original lineup got back together but was dissapointed in The Weirdness
Third - They'll be recording material they've already written
Fourth - It's yet another chance for Iggy to make something worthwhile with some redeeming qualities. Something he only seems to accomplsih when he's working with a strong, opinionated producer that can conjure something from the vocalist that he can't seem to do on his own - like Bowie, Was, or dare I say....Williamson.
homesickjameswilliamson Modern Guy, Modern Guy
Number of posts : 3439 Age : 35 Location : Stoogeland Registration date : 2007-07-07
Subject: Re: Iggy planning new material Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:25 am
Quote :
It's yet another chance for Iggy to make something worthwhile with some redeeming qualities. Something he only seems to accomplsih when he's working with a strong, opinionated producer that can conjure something from the vocalist that he can't seem to do on his own - like Bowie, Was, or dare I say....Williamson.
Yeh, i think iggy almost psyches himself out, as if what 'iggy' is to people has become too big for what he can handle, personally i thought preliminaires is one of his best albums, and he did well on that with some great songs and great lyrics i think because it wasnt expected of him if that makes sense, it was just a soundtrack and i think he thought that only the diehards would pay attention if it even got released on CD, so i think if he takes the pressure off himself he can, as you say RB73, make something worthwhile
Iguanas
Number of posts : 339 Age : 58 Location : Zagreb, Croatia Registration date : 2007-07-30
Subject: Re: Iggy planning new material Thu Feb 25, 2010 3:49 pm
I think the basic mistake with Weirdness was that they wanted to make a dangerous The Stooges album with a dangerous lyrics, instead only a good rock album. Iggy, James and others should think more about music and less about the Iggy and The Stooges legends.
Loose1969 Free & Freaky
Number of posts : 1565 Age : 66 Location : Callin' from the Fun House.... Registration date : 2007-07-18
Subject: Re: Iggy planning new material Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:36 pm
Iguanas wrote:
I think the basic mistake with Weirdness was that they wanted to make a dangerous The Stooges album with a dangerous lyrics, instead only a good rock album. Iggy, James and others should think more about music and less about the Iggy and The Stooges legends.
You hit the nail right on the head!
And thanks, HJW. I just like to see things from all sides before making a snap judgement.
Petrie Terrace "Flame On!"
Number of posts : 399 Location : Heaven Registration date : 2008-01-05
Subject: Re: Iggy planning new material Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:01 am
Ideally, I wish it could be a new album from James, Scott, and Ron, I couldn't care less if Iggy was on it or not.
G, F#, E Real O Mind
Number of posts : 2307 Age : 32 Location : Scotland Registration date : 2008-05-06
Subject: Re: Iggy planning new material Fri Feb 26, 2010 12:04 am
I second that.
Lucas
Number of posts : 294 Registration date : 2008-01-21
Subject: Re: Iggy planning new material Fri Feb 26, 2010 1:17 am
Iggy was an important part of Iggy and the stooges, how can you say that? Ron was great on the base, James on guitar and Scot is always okay. But let's hear it for the singer!
homesickjameswilliamson Modern Guy, Modern Guy
Number of posts : 3439 Age : 35 Location : Stoogeland Registration date : 2007-07-07
Subject: Re: Iggy planning new material Fri Feb 26, 2010 2:53 am
Yeh i dont understand the iggy bashing, iggy is an integral part of stooges, as each other member is, i dont feel any has any more importance - at least personally - than any others
i think they're one of those bands in which each member is as valuable as the previous, like zeppelin or the stones (not a great example but in terms of charlie, keith and mick) and some others i cant remember atm
so i dont believe removing iggy benefits anything, if anything its a hinderance as if removing anyone else from the band, i think when iggys good, hes really damn good, and when he does wrong it can be quite tragic
Natalie Dancing Stooge Queen
Number of posts : 668 Location : Stoogeland Registration date : 2009-06-11
Subject: Re: Iggy planning new material Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:55 am
Lucas,
You think Scott is always "okay"?
Maybe you need to clean out your ears! Scott is the best and most powerful rock drummer I have ever heard!
Natalie
Loose1969 Free & Freaky
Number of posts : 1565 Age : 66 Location : Callin' from the Fun House.... Registration date : 2007-07-18
Subject: Re: Iggy planning new material Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:22 am
Natalie wrote:
Lucas,
You think Scott is always "okay"?
Maybe you need to clean out your ears! Scott is the best and most powerful rock drummer I have ever heard!
Natalie
I second that! With that said, why ditch Iggy?
Perdu
Number of posts : 313 Registration date : 2009-10-12
Subject: Re: Iggy planning new material Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:41 am
Uh, let's not jinx Iggy And The Stooges by posts referring to removing anyone. All these guys used to be hard livers, and oftimes it catches up with one decades later unexpectedly. And it takes one to know one (in my case.)
studioguy
Number of posts : 840 Location : Saint Paul, MN Registration date : 2009-05-27
Subject: Re: Iggy planning new material Fri Feb 26, 2010 4:43 am
Loose1969 wrote:
Natalie wrote:
Lucas,
You think Scott is always "okay"?
Maybe you need to clean out your ears! Scott is the best and most powerful rock drummer I have ever heard!
Natalie
I second that! With that said, why ditch Iggy?
I third that! NO one else plays like Scott, he's my favorite rock drummer.
freemind
Number of posts : 137 Age : 36 Location : France Registration date : 2009-03-09
Subject: Re: Iggy planning new material Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:42 am
Natalie wrote:
Lucas,
You think Scott is always "okay"?
Maybe you need to clean out your ears! Scott is the best and most powerful rock drummer I have ever heard!
Natalie
I wanna say Jerry Nolan best punk drummer ever
Lucas
Number of posts : 294 Registration date : 2008-01-21
Subject: Re: Iggy planning new material Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:33 am
I have no doubt that Scot is a fantastic drummer, though i cannot judge that. I didn't mean to degrade him or anything.
G, F#, E Real O Mind
Number of posts : 2307 Age : 32 Location : Scotland Registration date : 2008-05-06
Subject: Re: Iggy planning new material Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:34 am
Right who ruined "The Weirdness" with an awful vocal performance and attrocious lyrics? Iggy. Who sounded like Frank Sinatra one minute and a pissed off old granny the next at the Sau Paulo show? Iggy. Who get's a huge amount of praise instead of the others because he claimed to write The Stooges songs when he only added lyrics and a vocal melody? Iggy. Who has an ego so big when The Stooges reformed he asked the other two members for the band to be called "Iggy And The Stooges"? Iggy.
Don't get me wrong Iggy is a great performer and was a good vocalist but he needs a hell of alot of practise at it to get it up to scratch again. Sometimes instead of all the praise you need to be realistic even if these people are who you see as "idols" or what have you. Just because he's seen as a legend doesn't mean he doesn't have faults in his ability now. You can't just live off past glories for fuck's sake no matter how great they may have been.
If they crafted a new album from James material and the stuff Ron did with Scott then I'd be quite happy. At best Iggy's lyrics and singing would just fit in with the music at worst he'd ruin the album.
homesickjameswilliamson Modern Guy, Modern Guy
Number of posts : 3439 Age : 35 Location : Stoogeland Registration date : 2007-07-07
Subject: Re: Iggy planning new material Sat Feb 27, 2010 4:10 am
G, F#, E wrote:
Right who ruined "The Weirdness" with an awful vocal performance and attrocious lyrics? Iggy. Who sounded like Frank Sinatra one minute and a pissed off old granny the next at the Sau Paulo show? Iggy. Who get's a huge amount of praise instead of the others because he claimed to write The Stooges songs when he only added lyrics and a vocal melody? Iggy. Who has an ego so big when The Stooges reformed he asked the other two members for the band to be called "Iggy And The Stooges"? Iggy.
Don't get me wrong Iggy is a great performer and was a good vocalist but he needs a hell of alot of practise at it to get it up to scratch again. Sometimes instead of all the praise you need to be realistic even if these people are who you see as "idols" or what have you. Just because he's seen as a legend doesn't mean he doesn't have faults in his ability now. You can't just live off past glories for fuck's sake no matter how great they may have been.
If they crafted a new album from James material and the stuff Ron did with Scott then I'd be quite happy. At best Iggy's lyrics and singing would just fit in with the music at worst he'd ruin the album.
To be fair, not all of the lyrics on weirdness are terrible, some a pretty good actually (o solo mio / my idea of fun - minus the chorus / passing cloud / mexican guy), well i enjoy them, and some other typical iggy one liners like 'the honey flows into the fat' from you cant have friends
and iggy did sound crap at sao paulo, i assume it was a contracted gig or something and he definitely needed more practice/rehearsal before that, as did the band, but thats what it was for i think, nad they'll be better in the coming tour, including iggy
i think iggy getting 'more' praise than the band is typical of any frontman of a band, think of morrison or some others, people just dont really pay attention to the backing band, and if you are talking about us here on the forum then i think you have to relax a bit, its just peoples opinion on how much iggy had to do with the stooges sound - apart from once in an interview from the 90s i dont think iggys ever clearly stated he wrote the songs, and even then he may have been misinterpreted - he's always said that the Ashetons created the sound, as did others he's worked with williamson/bowie/kirst/etc and he tries to get stuff out of it, or works from it
and to my recollection iggy and the band wanted it to be The Stooges on the tour, that was his intention, but obviously because he's had a long career and is well known promoters strap the name on to get more tickets sold, its not bad its just business, and i doubt Ron or the other ever took it badly, i konw they had a problem with it in the 70s, but there is reason now, iggy had a huge career and some well known songs
from what i can see and read on this forum i dont think anyone is being unrealistic in their appreciation of iggy, and if they are - or if he is someones 'favourite' - then thats their opinion, as i've stated earlier in the thread when iggys good he's great but when he's bad he can be tragic, its just the way he is, i think, especially now, he can psyche himself out pretty easily
the album was an attempt to move past the glories and try something new, it didnt work out, for reasons we've talked about again and again (mix/producer/promotion/songs/lyrics etc) hopefully he'll have learnt from his mistakes on the weirdness and even have learnt from his success with a more relaxed album like preliminaires, and they'l have something good, i think weirdness was a case of iggy trying to sound like himself, or trying to get the stooges to sound like the stooges, but if you look at iggys career, and the stooges albums are other great examples, no album sounds similar, other bands have a signature sound and change it somestimes or experiment, like the stones, they have a sound or a groove, but they've experimented with so many different styles, but you can tell its them, whereas as the stooges and iggy, nothing sounds similar, and unfortunately it can be hit and miss, and i think the best of times (stooge/funhouse/raw power/lust for life/idiot/american caesur/preliminaires/etc) its when he's not trying to sound like himself but doesnt care or is more relaxed or is just a total fuck off to people which is also good
hopefully they'll just do another fuck off album, and typical stooge venom or whatever will come out, if thats not the case, then i think they should work to that, the first three albums have a psuedo-concept, or sub text, (boredom/freedom/depression) but weirdness wasnt approached like that, and didnt come out like that, its a bit of a mess, i actually like the album, but objectively its not very good, except for the Ashetons
sorry this is a bit of rant but i wanted to clear up some of what i think are your own misconceptions, maybe i'm reading it wrong, but again this is just what i think, and i dont understand alot of the iggy bashing, i know he has his faults but he's not a bad guy, even if he's done some bad stuff to people in the past
cant remember which post it was, but someone said, we should be glad to have any of the stooges left after the life they've lead, and we know how bad it is to lose of the key members of the band and should be glad to have any of them here, playing and recording
G, F#, E Real O Mind
Number of posts : 2307 Age : 32 Location : Scotland Registration date : 2008-05-06
Subject: Re: Iggy planning new material Sat Feb 27, 2010 4:22 am
Opinions are not misconceptions.
You can't pick a few lines and use them as justification for and album's worth of dreadful lyrics. Iggy has said several times he wrote The Stooges songs, saying he wrote everything on "Fun House" was a favourite of his for some time. And up till the reunion he was down right disrespectful to the Ashetons. Iggy did ask The Stooges to be called "Iggy And The Stooges" on the reunion, Ron states this in an interview.
Not only does he get credit from the frontman thing but because of the name "Iggy And The Stooges" it implies a backing band status. And as for the rest of the band needing more practise for Sau Paulo they probably did but its not like Ig got some lyrics wrong or got timing a bit off, he sounded downright awful throughout.
There was no experimentation in "The Weirdness" just standard rock which is all well in good but it was standard rock with awful lyrics and appalling singing. "O Solo Mio" was the only redeeming thing on that album and wasn't included on the proper album, Ig refused to have it as an opener.
You say Ig is not a bad guy. this is all opinion if you have actually met him, I have never met him but he's been a completly selfish twat and used and disregarded alot of people. Its not struggling its throwing dirt in the faces of those who helped him. But I cannot properly judge him as a person as I have never met him, though I can form an opinion from his actions.
Also I hardly think giving some honest opinion rather than the usual "Iggy's amazing!" is "Iggy bashing".
Last edited by G, F#, E on Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:17 am; edited 1 time in total
Loose1969 Free & Freaky
Number of posts : 1565 Age : 66 Location : Callin' from the Fun House.... Registration date : 2007-07-18
Subject: Re: Iggy planning new material Sat Feb 27, 2010 4:29 am
Whew...this one is getting ugly...
Perdu
Number of posts : 313 Registration date : 2009-10-12
Subject: Re: Iggy planning new material Sat Feb 27, 2010 6:41 am
Here's a joke to break the tension: How do you simulate ocean-going yacht racing? A: Stand in a cold shower and tear up $100 dollar bills as fast as you can.
Pertinence r.e. San Paolo- stand in a cold shower (it was raining out there in the audience, where the peripatetic singer ventured) and run around as fast as you can despite six decades of innumerable injuries while screaming for eighteen songs. Now you're fronting a Stooges show.
Gee, people, if you live long enough, you're going to do some contradictory things throughout your life, no matter what career arc. If you come from dysfunctional families, you might plunge into bad diversions to make up for the gaping absence of what most people take for granted in their own families as love, and make terrible decisions mouthing off trash here and there as a consequence until you stop said diversions. Rationalizing? No, observing.
And lastly, whether or not you all personally know folks in the biz, the standing joke is --if you're not a megalomaniac, you're not going to make it. That goes for bands in their entirety. There's some very self-serving, quasi-ugly statements afoot in the media blitz to come, and it's not from the usual suspects.
Natalie Dancing Stooge Queen
Number of posts : 668 Location : Stoogeland Registration date : 2009-06-11
Subject: Re: Iggy planning new material Sat Feb 27, 2010 6:52 am