Ron Asheton and James Williamson

It's unlikely that's going to happen. I love The Weirdness (in bits) but the angst has gone. There's no more raw fury, at least not in the studio. Live it's still there. Maybe a live album?

As soon as Ron left The Stooges his guitar style changed to that Weirdness sound. Just listen to Destroy All Monsters.

The biggest let down on The Weirdness (I think) was Iggy. The guy can still scream and shout but when he sarted singing the same tune as the riff it bothered me. It's just lazy.

Also he had some great lyrics ike,

"A screaming fool is painting me is painting me,
In flashing shades of luxury and pain"

Then he had some awful lyrics like,

"England and France, these countries are old,
The cheese is stinky and the beer aint cold"

And sometimes both in the same verse/chorus,

"I'm sad and lonely baby cause I can't live among my class.
I'm thinking only baby about scoring your peice of ass"

And where have the intros gone?! Not to mention Iggy's yelps and howls.

BUT it's so much better than the formulaic crap around at the moment and it's a FUN album. The others were damn scary and pissed off but this is fun which is nice too. At least these 60 year old guys aren't pretending to be something they're not...except maybe Iggy. But then again he's a legend so he can get away with it.

I haven't heard much of Ron's stuff outside of the Stooges, just bits and pieces from Destroy all Monsters and The New Order and New Race, but it certainly didn't blow me away like it should have done, just on account of it being Ron....
Destroy all Monsters, at least, was meant to be an arty-type band?
it's probably unreasonable to go on wanting Ron to sound exactly like he did on those first two albums, but I wish he could, all the same. Especially the first one.
and yeah I agree about The Weirdness being fun. once I realized that I was able to enjoy it more. at least Ron's still got the power on those rhythms, even if the rhythms have changed

Destroy All Monsters were protopunk post-punk. So they were REALLY ahead of their time! Listen to Bored and Your Gonna Die. At first I hated it but they slowly grew on me and I reallly love them now.

bored's a great song!

yes, G,F#.E, I've listened to 'Bored'...didn't like it much, but will give it another try, thanks for the advice!

James is absolutely phenomenal at what he does, but I prefer Ron at what HE does. Fuzz, distortion, feedback, wah...the most INCREDIBLE riffing... no-one has EVER matched him. Hell, these days he even plays tunes!

Agree wholeheartedly dorian

Nadja wrote:

also, wonder what James's playing would sound like now, if he was still playing! Would he have mellowed a bit with age or something (don't think you can say that Ron has, anyway!)

James has always said he used the guitar as outlet for his anger while Ron's always denied he put any emotion into it (which is suprising as his guitar sound is the most emotive I've ever heard) so I think James playing nowadays would be very similar to Ron's - still powerful but more conventional.

Maybe it's some kind of unconscious drive in Ron - that makes it all the more powerful.

Thats a good theory, I don't understand how Ron does it, I'm just glad he does. Hes truly the greatest guitarist to ever have graced the planet and deafen us with feedback

Also, he's maybe just being disingenuous when he claims that he doesn't put any emotion into his playing.
Just as long as he never changes, that's fine by me!

Loose1969 wrote:

Nadja wrote:

Id sure love to be able to PLAY a guitar!
what's that they say about never being too old to learn....?
however they ALSO say you can't teach an old dog new tricks!
In any case, I'd like to have Ron Asheton teach me (DREAM ON!!)

It's never too late!

Shit, it is now!

Nadja wrote:

Loose1969 wrote:

Nadja wrote:

Id sure love to be able to PLAY a guitar!
what's that they say about never being too old to learn....?
however they ALSO say you can't teach an old dog new tricks!
In any case, I'd like to have Ron Asheton teach me (DREAM ON!!)

It's never too late!

Shit, it is now!

I know.

you guys have to be kidding me. this thread is comedic gold..."i mean james williamson is ok but he was no ron asheton obvviously" james williamson fucking SLAYS ron asheton for christ's sake. james williamson on his worst day> ron asheton in top form. you guys really play guitar?? ron ashetons style is not hard at all to copy its easy as shit my friends very basic. james williamson on the other hand his style is very hard to re-create

They are hard to compare to each other. I can play Ron's rhythm parts very easily but not his leads and I'm exactly the opposite with James, his rhythm parts are very complex and his lead parts are pretty easy.

mg9011 wrote:

you guys have to be kidding me. this thread is comedic gold..."i mean james williamson is ok but he was no ron asheton obvviously" james williamson fucking SLAYS ron asheton for christ's sake. james williamson on his worst day> ron asheton in top form. you guys really play guitar?? ron ashetons style is not hard at all to copy its easy as shit my friends very basic. james williamson on the other hand his style is very hard to re-create

mg9011 wrote:

you guys have to be kidding me. this thread is comedic gold..."i mean james williamson is ok but he was no ron asheton obvviously" james williamson fucking SLAYS ron asheton for christ's sake. james williamson on his worst day> ron asheton in top form. you guys really play guitar?? ron ashetons style is not hard at all to copy its easy as shit my friends very basic. james williamson on the other hand his style is very hard to re-create

You don't really get it do you?

You don't really get it do you? [/quote]

no i dont get it at all man. all these people talking about how its impossible to play like ron asheton and his style was sooo unique when it wasnt at all. personaly both ron ashetons leads and rhythms were very easy to learn. williamson has complex rhythms and leads. and dont get me wrong im not saying that james is better soley in a technical sense hes better in every way. funhouse is a cool little record has a neat feel to it sounds like a porno soundtrack on a bad acid trip but it doesnt hold a candle to raw power gimme a break

I believe you're confusing technique and artistry.

On a purely practical level it may be easier to attempt to mimic the technique of Ron Asheton than it is to mimic the technique of James Williamson, since James Williamson's playing is regarded as more technically complex (although in the end that is debatable), but you are certainly wrong to declare one man 'better in every way'.

There's more to art than skills, and sometimes the (apparent) simplicity of technique is essential to the subtlety of the art. “It doesn't make much difference how the paint is put on as long as something has been said. Technique is just a means of arriving at a statement.” (Jackson Pollock)

Of course if you feel that James Williamson is a greater ARTIST than Ron Asheton, purely in terms of ART... well that's up to you and no one can ever tell you that you're wrong.

Although of course you are.

Very well said woody - thanks.

no no no. clearly james williamson is far superrior to ron asheton on a technical level thats not debatable. but i like i said before not only is he better technique wise he is far far better in an "artistry" sense as well.

Yes it is debatable, and I'll debate it with you if you want. Of course it's debatable.

You say Ron's technique was inferior to James's? I say HOGWASH!

As for 'artistry'... history will decide.

Not to feed the Troll, but what Ron came up with on the 1st and 2nd with Iggy was perfect, what James came up with for on Raw Power and Kill City was perfect. The Stooges are about energy and performance and getting the point across and not about technique.

no thats really not just my opinion everybody knows that james williamson was a more accomplished player and that raw power is more complex than fun house. are you saying that fun house is more technicaly complex than raw power?

studioguy wrote:

Not to feed the Troll, but what Ron came up with on the 1st and 2nd with Iggy was perfect, what James came up with for on Raw Power and Kill City was perfect. The Stooges are about energy and performance and getting the point across and not about technique.

im a troll because i think james williamson was better than ron asheton? these responses amuse me to no end anytime you say raw power is better than fun house and/or that williamson is better than asheton people get angry at you as if thats the wrong answer. i think this ron asheton worship is just record collector snobbery, that saying fun house is better than raw power is like the hip answer or something

also let me repeat I AM NOT SAYING WILLIAMSON IS BETTER BASED SOLEY ON TECHNIQUE. guys like satriani or vai are 10 times more technicaly accomplished than williamson but i dont personaly feel they are "better' guitar players. williamon is the perfect combination of technique and feel of "artistry" or whatever you want to call it. ashetons playing doesnt have 1/10th of williamsons energy, passion, feel and artistry