What if Williamson rejoined?

G, F#, E wrote:

Personally I think they should only play songs from the 72-74 period though and not call themselves The Stooges. But thats just me.

Nobody can replace Ron but Williamson, Iggy and Scott could do something different together.

Agreed. The name "Iggy and The Stooges" always annoyed me because it puts Iggy above the other band members, but now there is a use for it if JW rejoins (i.e. to signify a different band to THE STOOGES.) No Ron - no STOOGES, but I&TS could work provided that they don't play any of Ron's songs because, honestly, it would not feel like a tribute. JW was more technically accomplished than Ron - no debate - but equally, nobody, including JW, can duplicate Ron's sound.

this 'technically accomplished' thing, always brought up in relation to Ron, always bothers me. I know I'm an absolute greenhorn when it comes to guitar technique, but as well as creating the greatest sound ever Ron seemed able to play quite a few notes even on the earliest albums.

and just for the record, I'm not saying he was more technically accomplished than other players. Just that he never appeared THAT limited, even in his technique.

gazatthebop wrote:

The real problem for me now is Iggy, i do not believe he can recreate the bitchin vocal performances he gave in the early 70's, his voice has changed and is now more suited to jazz crooner than worlds forgotten boy.

well, he is a bit older now....

"well, he is a bit older now...."

..............................................

i just worry the Raw Power songs will not sound right, whereas i believe a song like "She Creatures.." could. "I Got a right" kinda worked so they will have to choose their songs carefully and have the ability to do just that.
Maybe Ron didn't mind playing the Raw Power era tracks, he started to at the end didn't he.....maybe it was Iggy's decision to steer away for so long because he can't do them vocal justice, and we know he's very proud of his vocals on that album (according to the remix sleevenotes).

If JW joins Iggy and the Stooges 2010 just could sound awful live, i hope not but it could just happen.

hmmm....well, did the Raw Power songs not sound good when they started doing them last year?

The few versions of "Raw Power" and Search and Destroy" i heard i have to say no. "Penetration" and "Gimme Danger" are examples of songs that could work for me, but better in a dance hall than an open air festival experience....maybe new Pop/Williamson songs is the only way forward

Just hope James gets to play the blues again the way he did on 'Pinpoint eyes' and 'I need somebody'!!

Nadja wrote:

this 'technically accomplished' thing, always brought up in relation to Ron, always bothers me. I know I'm an absolute greenhorn when it comes to guitar technique, but as well as creating the greatest sound ever Ron seemed able to play quite a few notes even on the earliest albums.

and just for the record, I'm not saying he was more technically accomplished than other players. Just that he never appeared THAT limited, even in his technique.

I didn't mean the "technically accomplished" thing negatively Nadja. Ron was a unique sonic innovator, who pointed the way for many others to try to follow. I love James' playing, but that doesn't make him a suitable replacement on guitar for any of the songs off the first 2 albums (in my humble opinion!)

It's just that phrase, 'technically accomplished' always makes me wanna scream, that's all. Actually, I'm not sure what it means anyway! Something to do with virtuosity? Which unfortunately translates into show-offiness a lot of the time (altho I'm certainly NOT implicating the likes of James Williamson here - he's on a different level to that). Ron never showed off of course, and he was the very last person who needed to, in my opinion.

Or maybe, 'technically accomplished' should mean being able to utilize an instrument to its greatest possible effect. Ron certainly did that!

''technically accomplished" vs a "creative" guitar player..?

Technically accomplished players are usually taught by learning various note scales and or technique and practice a lot so they become very fluid.

Creative players may not have learned much technique, however, they more often then not, create outside the box and their imagination knows no boundaries. They usually are not hindered by the absurd and run with it....

In an interview, Ron said he and the boys thought getting an additional guitar player would be fun. However, after James joined, James and Iggy soon became joined at the hip because of their heroin addiction... there after things fell apart.....Ron didn't do drugs....at all....

I dunno....between Ron's death, freshly in my mind and the Cheetah being way older, many may be disappointed. His mind is saying yes, but his body? He's wearing, at least a two inch shoe lift in one leg now (occupational hazards) and his body is withering... plus, he stated he wanted to slow down...maybe they won't do mega touring....

I'm sure he's giving Williamson plenty of dressing tips and even some playing tips....he did it with Watt...he had Watt out of his flannel shirts when they played...so Mike wore that cool jump suit....

Oh and the vintage Stooge footage.....bravo...thanx for posting those.....sorry for the long chit chat....it's late can't sleep....later...

I think some of the Raw Power stuff is a little out of Iggys range now, so what, play it in a lower key. As far as James not being able to play, dont let that bother you. You dont forget how to play guitar. Plus, hes been playing again now for a few years, he'l be fine. As far as those guys not looking the same as they did 40 years ago, who does? And who cares? I guessyou could go to the concert and hold a picture circa 1973 in front of you if it bothered you that much.

"Hold a picture circa 1973 in front of you if it bothered you that much." HAHA There ya go--problem solved, popmansam! Take yer Mic Rock picture book and thumb thru it while they play in the background onstage. Not me. I'm dyin' for a chance to witness this extravaganza in the here and now. It's not like they're in wheelchairs. Everybody ages. Think I always looked this bad?

Cyd.....there's my girl....

I'm personally not talking so much about looking old, as much as tenacity and endurance of playing...live performance and touring is grueling. Iggy just may not do as many stage antics, however, I'm sure they'll still rock...with much practice and I'm sure James can do it...as did Scotty

People were bagging on the first re union shows saying Scotty was playing poorly, however, he got better as time went on...after much playing...

I'm sorry regarding Ron's demise, however, I'm curious regarding the new stuff they may give birth too....I'm sure if Ron could do it all over again he would have taken better care of himself.....I hope they all go out with a bang....bye for now...

YES Dish. I imagine touring is a mofo. I bet it had some bearing on the reason Ron konked. I'm going to write James and tell him to get a complete physical before all this goes down. My man gets one every year. You know, check out your ticker and cholesterol and blood work. They used to make us get a physical to play after school sports in high school! If you never exercised a lick in 30 years it WILL be a strain. I wonder though, is it THAT strenuous to stand up and play a guitar? Iggy on the other hand SAYS he exercises regularly but he looks exhausted after his shows. And Scott does more work banging cans than all of them. Regardless, we don't want no more tragedies.

James can still play. He's a genius. I wonder how he will react when he gets mobbed on stage. My hope is he can WRITE more of the same ...

There are many other things to consider.....jet lag from oh so many locations, packing/unpacking, entertaining the press and fans, the strain of day after day playing, sound check, energy vampires tugging at you, sleepless nights from being too wired from playing and not being able to shut down.......then the same thing all over again.....

Ok....I'm really outta here....speak later...have an awesome weekend!

ps....actually, that's a great idea with Willimson and a check up....I understand Watt has been very health conscious since he had a health issue a few years back....... now I'm really, really, really outta here......heheeeeeeee........bye....love ya long time Cyd...ox

You know, touring in a band with money and backup is WAY easier then riding around in a van and carrying your own equipment. Not to say it isnt hard but there are plenty of bands the stooges age who play a lot more dates then them. Check out some blues guys or bluegrass for christs sake, they play alot. BB king is 80and still plays 100 gigs a year. Sure, no one rocks as hard as the stooges but they can do it. Besides James is rich, he worked for Sony all those years. They make their people get check ups ect. they have too much money invested in them not too.

James and Iggy will do fine. Iggy never ceases to amaze us, of course.

Natalie Schlossman who most of you know ran the first Stooges Fanclub wanted me to post this for her as she's having trouble registering on the Forum (HL did you get that PM, anything you can do?)

"I read that Paul T said Ron was not that ambitious. Reading this made me a wild woman.

Ron and I became good friends almost immediately after meeting.
We used to talk on the telephone when they were not touring. We hung out before and after shows. When the band broke up we still hung out when I visited Ann Arbor. We even kept in touch for a few years by letter way into the late 70's. We visited Dave in the hospital together just days before he died. Just trying to establish that I really did know the man well.

When James first joined as lead guitar, I was very upset. I was a fan of Ron's unique style from the first time I heard him play. Nobody was saying anything about the change and I know I gave them some attitude about it (Years later Iggy told me that he knew I never got over it and he was right). But I made it a point to speak to Ron about it.

I have always been outspoken and I came right out and told him I hated what was done to him. It was not fair, it was not justified and it sucked. I did and said everything but stamp my foot. Ron was not happy about it but it was a done deal and he wanted to stay in the band. I told him he needed to fight and he agreed that he should have but politics seems to outweigh doing the right thing. I did not want to make Ron feel worse that he already did so I dropped it.

What really got me upset was when I read the Ron did not have much ambition. Ron surely did!!!!!. Look at all the other bands he played with. Look at his song writing, his acting and other involvement in films as well as his guitar design. Look at all that he accomplished without the Stooges. This is not the MO of a non ambitious person.

Ron was truly one of the nicest, kindest, gentle, most sensitive, talented people I have ever had the honor of knowing. I just feel I had to say this as he is no longer able to defend himself."

mc wrote:

What really got me upset was when I read the Ron did not have much ambition. Ron surely did!!!!!. Look at all the other bands he played with. Look at his song writing, his acting and other involvement in films as well as his guitar design. Look at all that he accomplished without the Stooges. This is not the MO of a non ambitious person.

."

Agreed!
Seems like he tried a lot of things, but he didn't get quite the level of success and recognition he deserved.
To quote the man himself, 'I wasn't very sucessful in my endeavours (before the reunion) but I kept on playing'. Isn't it a good thing he did!

Here's what James wrote me when I asked him to get a checkup at the doctors before he tours.

"I am very conscientious about these things and have an annual physical and also an echo stress test every 1.5 years from a cardiologist....that test is 99.5% accurate...so I feel like I'll survive a tour with these other old guys...of course I'm not sure about the others but I'm ok....I'm ready to rock not ready for the rocker :-)"

So we can relax. I was born worried. He's so personable and dynamic. I preach this checkup stuff and I haven't been to see a doctor in TWO YEARS.

mc wrote:

What really got me upset was when I read the Ron did not have much ambition. Ron surely did!!!!!. Look at all the other bands he played with. Look at his song writing, his acting and other involvement in films as well as his guitar design. Look at all that he accomplished without the Stooges. This is not the MO of a non ambitious person.

Ron was truly one of the nicest, kindest, gentle, most sensitive, talented people I have ever had the honor of knowing. I just feel I had to say this as he is no longer able to defend himself."

Exactly!

Natalie needs to get on this forum. I really feel Ron is being almost forgotten about already and it annoys me. He was the only one to play at all The Stooges gigs, not even Scott and Iggy did that. RIP Ron , I'll never forget you. At my time of posting this it'll be half a year since Ron was found dead. Tragic

Quote :

At my time of posting this it'll be half a year since Ron was found dead

i never noticed that, still seems like it was last week, still miss him and ''the stooges', even with james it'll never be the stooges again

I too was pretty pissed off when I read that post, however, I'm new to this bored and don't think a Net54 bashing would be helpful, therefore my diplomacy on quoting Ron and would hopefully bring a bit of incite.

I fought tooth and nail for Ron on many occasion and for the same injustices he had to endured and was ANGREY that he was left in the dust. Even though I feel the re union was for political reasons, Ron was offered another go...I so was happy he finally had his day in the sun!

My heart is still heavy about his death and the loss of an amazing musician and person. However, Iggy has ALWAYS made clear his animal nature, which is what makes Iggy, Iggy.

It's Iggy's life, any decisions he makes is his business if we like it or not.....I've had to think long and hard...and he does have the right...

Ron will NEVER, EVER BE FORGOTTEN by those who love him and know the honest truth...and I'm sure this bored and others will give him the respect he much deserves....I'm outta here for a while.....I'm getting too old for this shit.....

Ron is still the background pic of this forum though? I will make sure this forum doesnt forget Ron! And so will G, F#, E!